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Rick Warren Biography Uncovers Rocky Marriage, Depression (Unauthorized Biography)
Christian Post ^ | 12/4/2009 | Michelle Vu

Posted on 12/06/2009 9:02:04 AM PST by SeekAndFind

A new unauthorized biography of "America's pastor" Rick Warren uncovers a marriage with an unconventional beginning and a time of depression that later gave Warren the strength to become who he is today.

Jeffery L. Sheler, religion correspondent for U.S. News and World Report, delves into the world of Warren in his latest book, Prophet of Purpose: The Life of Rick Warren. The book portrays the affable yet confident megachurch pastor who calls presidents and billionaires his friends in a much more vulnerable light.

In a live Web discussion with Christianity Today editor-in-chief David Neff on Wednesday, Sheler talked about the book and his personal thoughts on the man he interviewed and researched for months.

“He (Rick Warren) is probably at this point the most prominent evangelical in terms of the news media,” said Sheler during the Web seminar. The biographer noted that examining Warren’s media appearances would suggest that he is considered the most valid spokesperson for the evangelical movement.

“To that extent and to the extent that he is not identified as part of the old line religious right demonstrates the fact that he has succeeded, certainly to a point, in softening the image of evangelicalism.”

Sheler talked about the “purpose driven” pastor’s childhood hobby of collecting items – such as rocks, shells and coins – that offer a glimpse into how the influential pastor’s mind works. More than collecting, Warren is interested in categorizing the items, Sheler said.

“He now looks back at that part of his life and says, ‘Now as an adult, as a pastor, and a writer, I do the same thing, only now I do it with ideas,’” the journalist recalled Warren saying. “He is always looking at the relationship between things that may not seem obviously related to each other.”

This way of thinking has helped Warren as a communicator to take complex ideas and put them in simpler terms that people can understand. Warren’s bestselling book ,The Purpose Driven Life, Sheler noted, does not present any new ideas but rather takes old, difficult principles and makes them understandable to modern people.

Perhaps one of the most interesting parts of the biography, however, is the section about Warren’s marriage. By all appearance and comments from people who know the couple, Rick and Kay Warren have a happy and satisfying marriage. However, this was far from the truth in the beginning of the relationship.

Through interviews with Sheler, Rick and Kay Warren disclosed that they were not attracted to each other nor had feelings for each other when they agreed to be married. Instead, they believed that God had spoken to each of them saying this is the person they should marry.

Rick recalled the day when he was invited to speak at the church where Kay’s father was a pastor. As he ascended the steps to the stage to speak he looked over and recognized Kay, who was then dating his best friend, playing the piano. He said he heard God clearly tell him that this is who he will marry. At the time he had a hard time believing that because he didn’t love Kay and she was madly in love with his best friend. But still he kept the revelation in mind.

After his best friend broke up with Kay, Rick asked her on a date. On their second date, Rick asked Kay to marry him. At the time, Kay didn’t love Rick but felt that God was leading her to say yes. She recalled hearing God say, “I’ll bring the feelings.”

“To many people, understandably, it (seeking or listening to God’s voice) sounds very mystical and a little bit strange,” Sheler acknowledges during the Web seminar. “But in the evangelical world, that kind of language is quite common, where someone will say, ‘I’ve been hearing from the Lord lately that I should do such and such.’”

On their wedding day, the two were “virtual strangers,” Sheler writes. They also had a horrible honeymoon and suffered intensely from misunderstandings and other marital problems in the beginning of their marriage. The stress from the marriage problems coupled with Rick’s workload was so bad that he ended up in the hospital. Meanwhile, Kay said that she didn’t believe in divorce so she felt that she was sentenced to a life of suffering.

The couple eventually got marriage counseling even though they couldn’t afford it at the time. Rick racked up a bill of $1,500 on his credit card for the therapy and now jokes, “MasterCard saved my marriage!” The couple now have a successful and loving marriage and say, without embarrassment, that they still go to Christian marriage counseling once in a while to tune up their relationship.

At another point in Wednesday’s discussion, Sheler talked about Warren’s time of depression and how he literally went to the desert to take refuge. When Warren was in seminary, he had the vision of building a church for people who don’t go to church. He felt God told him that the church would one day have 20,000 people and be on a 100-acre property.

During his first year at Saddleback Church, the congregation already grew to 200 regular attendees and the number was increasing. But Warren, after giving a Christmas service that year, fled to the Arizona desert and described himself as falling into a depression. His depression, Warren said, stems from feeling that the success that he was already experiencing as a pastor was undeserved and from feeling that he was not equipped to pastor a 200-member church let alone a 20,000-member church as God had promised.

“He felt even that he wasn’t all that great a Christian and ‘maybe I shouldn’t even be a pastor,’” Sheler said.

But during his time in the desert, Warren said he had a “dialogue” with God when God agreed that Warren didn’t deserve to be successful nor did he deserve to be saved. However, he was saved by grace and by the same token his ministry is successful because of grace.

“'You just have to basically get out of the way.' 'It’s not about you,' as he would famously write in the opening lines of The Purpose Driven Life many years later. 'It’s about Me, God,'” Sheler said, paraphrasing what Warren heard God say to him. “He recognized it didn’t matter who he was; he was a flawed human being. What was important was he was putting himself in God’s service and God had chosen him as a matter of grace.”

On his second issue, Warren felt God clarified to him that the church was not his church but God’s. From that point of view, he felt God reminded him that the Lord will build His church and make sure people grow spiritually.

Coming out of the desert, the two questions that threatened to derail Warren’s ministry were answered. However, Warren said he still struggled with the issues and was in depression for months afterwards.

Now after three decades of pastoring Saddleback Church, the congregation has grown to more than 22,000 regular attendees and sits on a 120-acre campus.

Sheler concluded the Web discussion Wednesday with his personal insight on the subject of his biography.

“The amazing thing for me – having seen him in private meetings and public situations and private conversations – is you don’t see two or three different Rick Warrens,” Sheler remarked. “You always see the same person. Sort of what you see is what you get. I really think he is authentic, far from perfect, fun to hang around with, and I think as people get to know him, they will find many layers of intriguing aspects of a remarkable human being.”


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: biography; bookreview; pastor; prophetofpurpose; rickwarren; saddleback

1 posted on 12/06/2009 9:02:05 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Warren is a phony guy.

ALl he wants is MONEY and POWER.

He should be asahmaed of himself - rewriting the Bible to suit himself and making oodles of bucks off DUMB people that don’t know better. It’s fitting that he is close to Obama.


2 posted on 12/06/2009 9:04:49 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
It’s fitting that he is close to Obama.

You mean he was never close to Bush or McCain ?
3 posted on 12/06/2009 9:05:59 AM PST by SeekAndFind (wH)
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To: nmh

I agree.....he’s a fraud.....so is Joel Olsteen.


4 posted on 12/06/2009 9:09:02 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion,,,,,,the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: SeekAndFind

“You mean he was never close to Bush or McCain ? “

Did you see Rick Warren going to, I think it was Africa with Obama to conquer birth control and promote abortion? I didn’t see Bush or McPain doing trips like that.

Or how about being one of Obama’s IDIOTS when he was sworn in? I didn’t notice McPain or Bush using Warren for those roles.

Warren is a fake.


6 posted on 12/06/2009 9:12:55 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: SeekAndFind

I have no idea if Warren is a fraud or not......personally, I have never been comfortable with him, for some reason I get a bad feeling.


7 posted on 12/06/2009 9:14:17 AM PST by Kakaze (Exterminate Islamofacism and apologize for nothing.....except not doing it sooner!)
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To: jessduntno

Do not use potty language - or references to potty language (including in your tagline or capitalization of POTUS) - on the Religion Forum.


8 posted on 12/06/2009 9:19:07 AM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: nmh

“Did you see Rick Warren going to, I think it was Africa with Obama to conquer birth control and promote abortion? I didn’t see Bush or McPain doing trips like that.”

From a TV interview, and I believe this to all be true, or there being no evidence to the contrary;

MR. GREGORY: ...are you having on fighting some of the most difficult problems around the world, including your work on the continent of Africa?

MR. WARREN: Mm-hmm. Well, David, in, in 2002 when I wrote “Purpose Driven Life,” and then it became a, a big best-seller and sold a lot of copies, it, it honestly brought in tens of millions of dollars. When you write the best-selling hardback in American history and the most translated book in the world except for the Bible, it’s tens of millions of dollars. And frankly, when this money started coming in, I—it scared me. I thought, I’m a pastor, I live a pretty simple lifestyle and I don’t need money, and so what am I supposed to do with this? And when you write a book and the first sentence says, “It’s not about you,” then you figure the money’s not for you, too.

So we made five decisions.

The first one was we’re not going to change our lifestyle one bit. I still live in the same house I’ve lived in 16 years. I drive a 10-year-old Ford truck, bought my watch at Walmart. You know, to me if you’ve got a good pair of jeans and a comfortable T-shirt, you don’t have a whole lot of needs. So we didn’t change it.

Second thing is I stopped taking a salary from Saddleback Church now seven years ago.

The third thing is I added up all the church had paid me in the first 25 years and I gave it all back. And I did that because I didn’t want anybody thinking that I do what I do for money. I do this because I love Jesus Christ and I love God, and it’s, it’s out of my motivation—and I love people that do this.

We set up some charities.

We have one called Acts of Mercy which my wife leads that helps people infected and affected with AIDS, and another one called Equipping Leaders, and we pay for leadership training all around the world. We set up a program called the PEACE Plan, P-E-A-C-E, which stands for Promote reconciliation, equip servant leaders—ethical leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, educate the next generation.

By the end of December next year, we will have—we will have, the PEACE Plan, have been to every single country in the world. There’s 195 countries, 193 in the U.N.—North Korea and Bosnia aren’t in the U.N. We will have been in every country doing these humanitarian works.


9 posted on 12/06/2009 9:20:30 AM PST by jessduntno (Make the Democrats STFU - Stop The Federal Usurpation...dump them out in 2010.)
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To: nmh

I cannot stand him. He is a fraud and a businessman & marketer.

Close friend of Obama and apologist for Islam.


10 posted on 12/06/2009 9:21:10 AM PST by Frantzie (Judge David Carter - democrat & dishonorable Marine like John Murtha.)
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To: jessduntno

Warren doesn’t care if Obama agrees with him or not.

All Warren cares about is MONEY and FAME. To hang around people like Obama, gives him fame and the opportunity to make more money. Warren is NOT for real.

Allow me to refresh your memory.

Rick Warren Lauds Obama Choice Of Openly-Gay Pastor For Inaugural Prayer
Stuart Whatley | January 15, 2009 03:26 PM

Pastor Rick Warren, demonstrating his recently discovered and ever-increasing political savvy, has issued a statement lauding President-elect Obama’s choice of openly-gay Pastor Eugene Robinson for the Sunday night Inaugural kickoff prayer. From the statement, issued to Christianity Today:

According to press reports, it is because of a mutual respect that each feels towards the other over the HIV/AIDS pandemic on the African continent. That rationale, however, is not only dishonest, but is not even logical given the two distinct positions that the men come to on the matter. Because of this supposed shared concern, Warren is ready to turn over the spiritual mantle to a man who represents the views of Satan at worst or progressive anti-God liberals at best in most of his public positions on the greatest moral tests of our time.

Warren’s stand on the matter in this instance is what is in doubt – not Obama’s!

Barack Obama has a long history of defying the intended morality of Scripture. As a state legislator, he actively worked to preserve availability of abortion in all nine months of pregnancy. He opposed parental notification. He opposed any and all bans on partial-birth abortion (an act that includes delivery of the baby up to the head, the crushing of the baby’s brain, the suctioning of the brain matter, and then completed delivery of the child’s deflated cranium). In his run for the U.S. Senate, Obama even asked his wife to pen a letter to Illinois voters that reassured them of his commitment to fighting for the right to butcher children in the womb.

Barack Obama has long supported the advance of the radical homosexual activist lobby in its pursuit to destroy traditional marriage. He supported the creation of “special rights” for people who engage in homosexuality for the sole purpose of putting them at the front of the line on issues of employment, housing and litigation. He has also solidly backed the advancement of all “hate crimes” legislation, which ultimately may be used to silence clergy who believe according to their own convictions that homosexual behavior is wrong and preach so from biblical texts. Obama has a perfect voting record against the defense of marriage.

Barack Obama advocates continued funding for Planned Parenthood clinics in our nation’s inner cities, which are performing genocide against the populations of African Americans living there.

And most damnable of all, when a brave nurse named Jill Stanek brought about national awareness to a practice at a local hospital in suburban Chicago that allowed the starvation and neglect of newly born children who had survived abortion procedures – Obama opposed her. He opposed the right of those children to be given the chance to live and he advocated against a ban on such procedures – then known as “born alive abortions.”

...

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52998

“President-elect Obama has again demonstrated his genuine commitment to bringing all Americans of goodwill together in search of common ground...I applaud his desire to be the president of every citizen.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/15/rick-warren-lauds-obama-c_n_158294.html

Now doesn’t that just warm your evil heart? Hmmm?

What a stand up guy fr CHRIST? Huh?

Why is Obama’s evil in Rick Warren’s pulpit?

Posted: November 17, 2006
1:00 am Eastern

By Kevin McCullough

Rick Warren, the best selling author of “The Purpose Driven Life” and senior teaching pastor at Saddleback Church in California, has invited Sen. Barack Obama to speak to the congregation of the faithful on Dec. 1, 2006. In doing so, he has joined himself with one of the smoothest politicians of our times, and also one whose wickedness in worldview contradicts nearly every tenet of the Christian faith that Warren professes.
So the question is “why?”

Why would Warren marry the moral equivalency of his pulpit – a sacred place of honor in evangelical tradition – to the inhumane, sick and sinister evil that Obama has worked for as a legislator?

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52998

NO CHRISTIAN should have anything to do with Obama or Warren. They are hopelessy EVIL. Even Billy Graham REFUSED to be a Chpalin for this President. SUre pray for these EVIL men but don’t endorse them or whitwash EVIL and SIN like these tow do.


11 posted on 12/06/2009 9:22:47 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: SeekAndFind

Folks are upset when they find their religious guru to be just “another struggling human being” and not a god...


12 posted on 12/06/2009 9:23:42 AM PST by choctaw man (Good ole Andrew Jackson, or You're the Reason God Made Oklahoma...)
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To: jessduntno
Obama and Warren are made for each other.

Warren is a spiritually discerned useful idiot for Obama.

13 posted on 12/06/2009 9:24:02 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: choctaw man

“Folks are upset when they find their religious guru to be just “another struggling human being” and not a god...”

Not at all. I expect that. Stop trying to rationalize away how misguided Warren is and how much of a greedy hypocrite he is.

Rick Warren Lauds Obama Choice Of Openly-Gay Pastor For Inaugural Prayer
Stuart Whatley | January 15, 2009 03:26 PM

Pastor Rick Warren, demonstrating his recently discovered and ever-increasing political savvy, has issued a statement lauding President-elect Obama’s choice of openly-gay Pastor Eugene Robinson for the Sunday night Inaugural kickoff prayer. From the statement, issued to Christianity Today:

According to press reports, it is because of a mutual respect that each feels towards the other over the HIV/AIDS pandemic on the African continent. That rationale, however, is not only dishonest, but is not even logical given the two distinct positions that the men come to on the matter. Because of this supposed shared concern, Warren is ready to turn over the spiritual mantle to a man who represents the views of Satan at worst or progressive anti-God liberals at best in most of his public positions on the greatest moral tests of our time.

Warren’s stand on the matter in this instance is what is in doubt – not Obama’s!

Barack Obama has a long history of defying the intended morality of Scripture. As a state legislator, he actively worked to preserve availability of abortion in all nine months of pregnancy. He opposed parental notification. He opposed any and all bans on partial-birth abortion (an act that includes delivery of the baby up to the head, the crushing of the baby’s brain, the suctioning of the brain matter, and then completed delivery of the child’s deflated cranium). In his run for the U.S. Senate, Obama even asked his wife to pen a letter to Illinois voters that reassured them of his commitment to fighting for the right to butcher children in the womb.

Barack Obama has long supported the advance of the radical homosexual activist lobby in its pursuit to destroy traditional marriage. He supported the creation of “special rights” for people who engage in homosexuality for the sole purpose of putting them at the front of the line on issues of employment, housing and litigation. He has also solidly backed the advancement of all “hate crimes” legislation, which ultimately may be used to silence clergy who believe according to their own convictions that homosexual behavior is wrong and preach so from biblical texts. Obama has a perfect voting record against the defense of marriage.

Barack Obama advocates continued funding for Planned Parenthood clinics in our nation’s inner cities, which are performing genocide against the populations of African Americans living there.

And most damnable of all, when a brave nurse named Jill Stanek brought about national awareness to a practice at a local hospital in suburban Chicago that allowed the starvation and neglect of newly born children who had survived abortion procedures – Obama opposed her. He opposed the right of those children to be given the chance to live and he advocated against a ban on such procedures – then known as “born alive abortions.”

...

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52998

“President-elect Obama has again demonstrated his genuine commitment to bringing all Americans of goodwill together in search of common ground...I applaud his desire to be the president of every citizen.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/15/rick-warren-lauds-obama-c_n_158294.html

Now doesn’t that just warm your evil heart? Hmmm?

Even Billy Graham, wants NOTHING to do with Obama, the Obomination.

GET REAL!

Stop trying to rationalize away people’s legitimate reasons or seeing Warren as evil. BTW, Salvation is NOT works driven as Warren owould have you believe. Rewriting the Bible is also a huge no-no. Running around doing things, as in the Purpose Driven Life, will NOT get you eternal life. It is ALL ABOUT repenting and turning you life over to Him.


15 posted on 12/06/2009 9:28:14 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: SeekAndFind

Warren. A pinko preachin’ man.


16 posted on 12/06/2009 9:28:31 AM PST by IbJensen (A Prayer for Obama (Ps 109.8): Let his days be few; and let another take his position.")
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To: choctaw man
Folks are upset when they find their religious guru to be just “another struggling human being” and not a god...

Wonder how the apostle Peter would have been treated had they known that he denied Jesus Christ three times.
17 posted on 12/06/2009 9:29:05 AM PST by SeekAndFind (wH)
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To: nmh
Even Billy Graham REFUSED to be a Chpalin for this President.

Not sure if Billy Graham at his age can even function as a chaplain.
18 posted on 12/06/2009 9:30:15 AM PST by SeekAndFind (wH)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: jessduntno

“Warren’s stand on the matter in this instance is what is in doubt – not Obama’s!”

MR. GREGORY: And so how should—what should the president do?

MR. WARREN: Well, I, I certainly am—I think we’ve had 46 million Americans who aren’t here, those who could be here since Roe v. Wade who are not voting. And I, I think that, in a sense, is a holocaust. I really do. Now, I think that we have to get beyond the, the name-calling and find common ground to work on, on these issues. Now, I don’t understand the, the idea of it should be rare and, and less. Well, either you believe it’s life or you don’t. It—why would you believe it should be rare? Because if, if it’s not—if a baby, a fetus is not a life, then why restrict it?”

NONE of this stopped Warren from going to Africa to PROMOTE ABORTION with Obama. NONE OF IT. It sounded good but Warren certainly didn’t have a problem PROMOTING ABORTION with Obama on the trip.

WAKE UP!

Warren says one thing and does another.

THAT is a HYPOCRITE.


21 posted on 12/06/2009 9:42:50 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: SeekAndFind

It really didn’t matter. BTW, Palin recently went to visit him Besides, Billy Graham made it a point to OPENLY not want anything to do with Obama. It didn’t matter if he was up to it or not. Graham made an OPEN STAND AGAINST Obama. Unlike Warren who couldn’t get enough of Obama and palled around with him. Nah, there is no way to justify Warren and who he really is - a person with NO PRONICPLES when it comes to MONEY and FAME that will benefit him.


22 posted on 12/06/2009 9:44:55 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: SeekAndFind

“Wonder how the apostle Peter would have been treated had they known that he denied Jesus Christ three times.”

Christ tole him he would do this.

Peter was devestated when he realized what he did.

Later Peter was crucified for Christ.

In no way shape or form is Warren another Peter.

GEESH!


23 posted on 12/06/2009 9:46:28 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
"Allow me to refresh your memory; Rick Warren Lauds Obama Choice Of Openly-Gay Pastor For Inaugural Prayer Stuart Whatley | January 15, 2009 03:26 PM"

Allow me to refresh yours;

Warren: The issue to me, I'm not opposed to that as much as I'm opposed to redefinition of a 5,000 year definition of marriage. I'm opposed to having a brother and sister being together and calling that marriage. I'm opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that marriage. I'm opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

BELIEFNET: Do you think those are equivalent to gays getting married?

Oh , I do. For 5,000 years, marriage has been defined by every single culture and every single religion - this is not a Christian issue. Buddhist, Muslims, Jews - historically, marriage is a man and a woman. And the reason I supported Proposition 8, is really a free speech issue. Because first the court overrode the will of the people, but second there were all kinds of threats that if that did not pass then any pastor could be considered doing hate speech if he shared his views that he didn't think homosexuality was the most natural way for relationships, and that would be hate speech. We should have freedom of speech, ok? And you should be able to have freedom of speech to make your position and I should be able to have freedom of speech to make my position, and can't we do this in a civil way.

24 posted on 12/06/2009 9:52:14 AM PST by jessduntno (Make the Democrats STFU - Stop The Federal Usurpation...dump them out in 2010.)
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To: SeekAndFind

You can tell that the 2010 election season has started when the jackasses start showing up on the “media’s” radar screen again. I haven’t heard anything about this dork since he helped get BO elected.


25 posted on 12/06/2009 9:59:32 AM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Hey America! How's that hopey changey "diversity" thing workin' out for ya?)
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To: jessduntno
LOL!!!

ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHAT WARREN WILL SAY AND ENDORSE THE OPPOSITE.

“President-elect Obama has again demonstrated his genuine commitment to bringing all Americans of goodwill together in search of common ground...I applaud his desire to be the president of every citizen.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/15/rick-warren-lauds-obama-c_n_158294.html

YES, WARREN WAS REFERRING TO HOMOSEXUALS.

Suddenly Warren's tune changed when he had a chance to promote himself, at least from his warped view in being part of Obama’s inauguration.

You see, Warren will say all kinds of things but unlike someone like Billy Graham they will NOT extract themselves from evil. Obama is evil but that didn't stop Warren from reneging on abortion and condemning homosexuals. Nope! Warren had to have the spotlight.

Can you seriously imagine Peter, saying marriage is between and man and a woman and then endorsing a politician who didn't see it that way by being part of his inauguration? I can't and NO BIBLE I know of had a Christian do that.

If you are impressed with a lying hypocrite, that is your choice. I know of other Christians that have literally died for Him than agree with something as unChristian as abortion or homosexuality.

26 posted on 12/06/2009 9:59:41 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: jessduntno
“Warren's focus is on AIDS treatment. As he has said; “

Of course!

NEVER, EVER get to the ROOT PROBLEM with Aids. How convenient of Warren to sidestep that MAJOR ISSUE. In Africa it is those that screw around, have homosexually relations that get it. Of course, Warren lacks the balls to confront that and encourage monogamy, discourage promiscuity and condemn prostitution and homosexuality.

I am amazed that you are impressed with such a fake. Warren has no guts. Warren will NOT talk about the CAUSE, the ROOT PROBLEM of Aids and go right along with Obama to use ABORTION and wink a promiscuity and homosexuality.

Oh, I know, when not under pressure, he'll say it's wrong but when he is on the spot, his fame and $$$$ become more important and Warren will NOT MAKE A STAND for what the ROOT PROBLEM is.

How dare YOU, try to insult me with such excuses. Warren is a phony. Warren only thinks of himself. His “compassion” is misguided. True compassion addresses the ROOT PROBLEM and gets to the SOUL of the person and have them change their behavior. WARREN did NONE OF THAT when it could have made a difference.

29 posted on 12/06/2009 10:06:56 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

I do not like Rick Warren, I think he is a fraud and has fallen into the lure of money and fame.

I have also read about him switching his position during the election season, between being opposed to gay marriage and then reversing that and supporting gay marriage. I believe he has led many people astray from his position of power.


30 posted on 12/06/2009 10:29:07 AM PST by azkathy (OBAMA IS WEARING OUT MY CAPS LOCK!!!)
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To: azkathy
“I think he is a fraud and has fallen into the lure of money and fame.

I have also read about him switching his position during the election season, between being opposed to gay marriage and then reversing that and supporting gay marriage. I believe he has led many people astray from his position of power.”

Yes ... what you say is all true.

Also, God holds those in positions of authority to a HIGHER STANDARD. I’ don't gloat over Warren's fall but point it out so others are not fooled. I am convinced that some people want to be mislead. The misleading ways of Warren APPEAL to many who will NOT stand up for Biblical principles. They don't want to, just as Warren's doctrine conforms to our fallen culture.

Instead of Warren doing this:

Rom.12:2
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Warren conforms to our fallen culture in a slick way.

Warren missed an opportunity to TRANSFORM people with the healing power of Christ. If that had been Warren's true agenda, Obama would NEVER have allowed him to travel to Africa or be part of his inauguration. Fame, money and recognition got the better of Warren and it was easier to CONFORM to a fallen culture. No disciples that follows Christ reneges on God's principles like Warren continues to do.

Mayn people don't see that or want to see that because they are terribly compromised too. They want to beleive that if they follow him, maybe that will be their excuse when they stand before Him - but the turth is they have no excuse - just as Warren has no excuse not to be an adocate for Christianity instand if godless humanism.

31 posted on 12/06/2009 10:54:07 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

I live a few miles from his church. Through members of that church to an overall osmosis effect & from a true unbiased opinion, I believe he is a fraud & his church members are misdirected.


32 posted on 12/06/2009 11:40:12 AM PST by Digger (If RINO is your selection, then failure is your election)
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To: Digger
” live a few miles from his church. Through members of that church to an overall osmosis effect & from a true unbiased opinion, I believe he is a fraud & his church members are misdirected.”

I’ve seen this very often ... people LIKE the guy. They don’t want to hear or see that he is a FRAUD. They’ve been charmed by him. He’s probably very likable and people DIG THEIR HEELS in and DEFEND him because they LIKE him. Truth doesn’t matter. Hypocrisy doesn’t matter because they LIKE him.

33 posted on 12/06/2009 11:43:50 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: SeekAndFind

What Warren’s statements about Obama make clear is that he is asleep.

Pro-abortion politicians are NOT normal participants in the political process. They are CRIMINALS.

Do we consider Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Goering, Goebbels, Pol Pot, et al., to be people who deserve a “place at the table,” people with “something to contribute to the national conversation,” people with whom we need to be searching for “common ground.”

Anyone who speaks of a pro-abortion politician in this way is simply asleep; he does not take seriously the evil of the abortion holocaust.

We will know that the awakening has begun when we no longer hear politicians (like Orrin Hatch or John McCain) say things like “There are good people on both sides of this issue” or “He’s a good family man, with whom I simply have some serious policy differences.” Hatch and McCain are hopeless, I think. But when “our side” understands that the “other side” is WICKED, EVIL, and VIOLENT, and not just “a little more liberal,” we will START to restore Western civilization.


34 posted on 12/06/2009 12:01:51 PM PST by Arthur McGowan (In Edward Kennedy's America, federal funding of brothels is a right, not a privilege.)
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To: nmh

You are so correct.

I saw a perfect example of this recently with regard to Joel Osteen. A man I was visiting with said, “but he makes you feel so good.”

I am no religious expert, but recently I have studied “false Prophets.” Some things that I took to heart were, False teachers exalt themselves. They do not follow biblical priciples and they are deceptive, crafty persuasive, greedy and they engage in trickery.

The gentlemen I was listening to, Mike Gendron said “we are to mark them and avoid them.”

He also said people are following personalities instead of the Bible.


35 posted on 12/06/2009 12:17:48 PM PST by azkathy (OBAMA IS WEARING OUT MY CAPS LOCK!!!)
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To: azkathy

Oprah is also a “false teacher.” She has promoted the New Age movement and led people away from sound biblical principles. She also exalts herself just look at her magazine that she is on the cover of practically every month. (Now how many magazines do you know of that feature a diferent picture of the same person each month?)

Oprah has promoted the movie “The Secret” it claims to be bible based but is not. It is New Age Garbage that quotes the bible and uses it to further the new age movement.


36 posted on 12/06/2009 12:21:49 PM PST by azkathy (OBAMA IS WEARING OUT MY CAPS LOCK!!!)
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To: azkathy
I saw a perfect example of this recently with regard to Joel Osteen. A man I was visiting with said, “but he makes you feel so good.”

I am no religious expert, but recently I have studied “false Prophets.” Some things that I took to heart were, False teachers exalt themselves. They do not follow biblical principles and they are deceptive, crafty persuasive, greedy and they engage in trickery.

The gentlemen I was listening to, Mike Gendron said “we are to mark them and avoid them.”

He also said people are following personalities instead of the Bible.


It's all about FEELINGS!

They LIKE the personality.

Christianity is not about FEELINGS.

People are IGNORANT and don't bother to study it.

It's EASIER to have someone else tell them what they LIKE that fits in better with the world than TRUTH.

Willful IGNORANCE leads people astray.

The Bible is CLEAR about FEELINS:

Proverbs 14:12

There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.

Proverbs 28:26

He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.

There are many others but people don't bother to READ it. People are spiritually lazy and prefer to TRUST fallible man than God. This may sound harsh but it is the truth.
Olsteen is making a fortune stressing FEELINGS. Olsten is not even an ordained minister. He has no theological training but he is a marketing genius in making money. Olsteen's father must be spinning in his grave over his son's antics for money.

37 posted on 12/06/2009 12:47:22 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

You are correct once again about the FEELINGS issue.

A recent example of this I witnessed was a good friend of 30 years who has gotten sucked into the New Age Movement. She has lost her morals, values and compassion for her friends and family. When I talked to her about it, her response was “but I like my belief system.”

She has watched the Secret no less than 50 times but doesn’t see it as “new age” or realize she has been brainwashed.

People like Oprah say that the doctrine of the Bible is “narrow minded” but in reality they are “narrow minded” because they are pushing their own doctrine while saying we shouldn’t follow biblical doctrine. I would rather follow God and the Bible than some self-centered New Age garbage.


38 posted on 12/06/2009 1:00:04 PM PST by azkathy (OBAMA IS WEARING OUT MY CAPS LOCK!!!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Instead, they believed that God had spoken to each of them saying this is the person they should marry.
He said he heard God clearly tell him that this is who he will marry.

“To many people, understandably, it (seeking or listening to God’s voice) sounds very mystical and a little bit strange,” Sheler acknowledges during the Web seminar. “But in the evangelical world, that kind of language is quite common, where someone will say, ‘I’ve been hearing from the Lord lately that I should do such and such.’”

So Rick Warren is one of those pentecostalist-lite, leaky canon evangelicals. I'm not surprised.


39 posted on 12/07/2009 8:54:43 AM PST by Lee N. Field (It doesn't take much to be a false prophet these days beyond a WebTV and a blogspot account.)
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