Biblically Optimistic and Gospel-Based
"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
Posted on 12/07/2009 6:20:08 AM PST by topcat54
"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
Everytime I see these threads, I thank God I’m Eastern Orthodox.
I hear ya...Every time I see these threads, I thank God I'm a Bible Believing Dispensationalist...
We’ll know what happens at the end, WHEN it HAPPENS! in the meantime, we just have to focus on being READY. Regardless of our flawed theories and guesses as to when or how the end will come, we are called to live in anticipation!
There is simply no infallible way to know for sure ...
True believers have the Holy Spirit inside them.
Do not be be deceived by the fiery darts of Satan
Do not be lead astray, as men were during the time of the Judges.
“... every man did that which was right in his own eyes.” Judges 21:25
God's Word is true. His promises to Israel stand forever ... no matter how they come about. The church today has strayed far from the true Scriptures; and with the post modern ... pre-emergent movement occurring today ... it is far from the church of my youth.
How are the youth of today to KNOW and UNDERSTAND the SCRIPTURES when the church leaders are doing away with the TRUTH?
JMO. God help us in our day, in Jesus name, amen.
I may not grasp every thing that all the different eschatoloty groups believe but this statement seems odd to me with my limited knowledge of postmillennialism. Maybe I'm missing something. If the author defines Jews as an Biblical Ethnic group then I would see this as odd since most Postmillenialist that I know are calvinists and they don't see Jews as a Biblical ethnic group embraceing Jesus before the future second coming, assumeing they define the second comming as in the future.
On the other hand if the author defines Jews as one whose heart has been circumcised then I can agree with the author.
Romans 11:25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Everybody seems to want to talk "REPLACEMENT", as if Israel has been cast aside, and now "Christians" are Gods chosen ones or favorites. Its not about replacement, its about bringing gentiles in. Christianity IS NOT a refudiation of Judaism, it is a completion. Christ did not come to start a new religion, he came to finish, to complete what he started in the beginning.
What is done is the need for sacrifice. Christ is our atonement. No longer do we need to go before A High Priest, Jesus IS THE High Priest.
Paul, in verse 25 talks about the full number of gentiles coming in. We are currently in the day of gentiles. It DOES NOT mean Jews are EXCLUDED, but that gentiles are INCLUDED. But Paul does talk about a FULL number of gentiles, meaning at some point the door for gentiles will be closed.
If we jump back in Romans chapter 11:
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
Us gentiles are the wild branches, Israel is the natural, the root.
Paul warns us not to be arrogant. That we do not support the root, but that the root supports us. That we were GRAFTED in because of Gods kindness.
Jews were "broken off" because of unbelief in Christ as the Messiah, gentiles who believe have been grafted in in their place. BUT if a Jew believes he will be grafted back in.
Jews STILL are Gods CHOSEN people.:
Romans 11:28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
Paul, in another place, described himself basically as a Jews Jew. He was a Pharisee, a Rabi, perfect according to the law, AND YET he was a Christian. He was a broken off natural branch, until his conversion on the road to Damascus.
None of us should be PROUD of our denominational title. Whether Eastern Orth., Catholic, Baptist, Pentacostal, Presbyterian, Jew or whatever. Being part of a church WILL NOT get you to heaven. Saving grace comes from faith that Jesus is the Christ, God incarnate, and that his death and resurrection are the ONLY things that give us access to the Father.
DO NOT feel contempt for a Jew. By doing so you are showing contempt for what God calls blessed. If a Jew is a Christian, he/she is a brother or sister. If a Jew is not a Christian, mourn for them. BUT NEVER...NEVER look down upon them, and see yourself better. It is STRICTLY by Gods kindness and mercy any of us gentiles can call God Father.
Ping
Thanks for the ping!
Am I up for another acrimonious multi-kilopost nighttime (more heat than light) dogfight?
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
another spewing and flinging of UNBIBLICAL REPLACEMENTARIAN IDIOCIES.
What a surprise. /sar
I don't know if either of you caught this, but if you go to http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2388170/posts?page=186#186 and scroll to post 187, there are some terrific links to sermons by Dr. Mark Hitchcock on dispensationalism, what dispensationalists really believe, and some simply awesome messages on Preterism where you can listen to Dr. Hitchcock just Biblically annihilate that belief system.
If you have the time, I highly recommend listening to the sermons. They are immensely enlightening.
Making it clickable:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2388170/posts?page=186#186
Worth following up on.
I happen to be using someone else's computer at the moment, and it not working, shall I say, up to par. I didn't want to take a chance on attempting to post a link and have someone end up clicking on an al Qaeda chatroom or something.
Thanks again.
No sweat.
USUALLY
putting the link on it’s own line with an ENTER immediately at the end of it . . . will work.
I usually try and insure that there’s a blank line berfore and after the link.
Many classic and some neo-postmils see a significant conversion within ethnic Israel during the future spread of the gospel throughout the world.
E.g., see The Puritan Hope by Iain H. Murray or The Restoration of the Jews by David Brown.
Indeed. See Not Replacement...Expansion! by Fred Klett.
“I hear ya...Every time I see these threads, I thank God I’m a Bible Believing Dispensationalist...”
The author is blind of his own nakedness.
Replacement theology is far from dispensational, but is a natural consequence of a preterist position. Many reformed believers slip into confusing all of Israel’s blessings as their own, but conveniently forget the cursings attached to a reprobate Israel when they attempt to replace Israel in His Prophetic timeline with the Reformed Church.
While any ‘ism is sure to have its faults, I find dispensationalism much closer to teaching His Word and Plan than any other theologic system. Too bad the author isn’t intellectually honest enough to discern the meaning of Replacement Theology in his zeal to attack dispensationalism. If he were, he might actually catch his own errors and come to realize where dispensationalism offers some growth in his theologic position.
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