Posted on 12/15/2009 11:35:39 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege
If there is no God then the Universe created itself from nothing. So, the question to ask is; why would it bother?
Sorry; explanation FAIL. A "common design" that incorporates elements of Design A into Design B even though they are inferior or downright dysfunctional in the context of Design B cannot be explained as "design", unless it is postulated that the designer is an imbecile. I suppose one could rescue creationism with the postulate that God is an imbecile, but for some reason creationists just won't go there....
Problem is Genesis has two differing creation stories, and two differing flood stories. Biblical analysts call them JE (earlier) and P(later.) The book starts off with P.
Talk about intelligent design, any intelligent analysis can tell that these stories were written at different times by different people. Worse, Moses couldn't write.
How about this being taught with ID??
This really boils down to the notion that, when discussing the possibility of an omnipotent Creator of all living things, if we see some aspect of the creation which has not been carried out in quite the way that WE would have done it, then we can conclude that God does not exist.
That's a bold position.
Who would you ask?
http://www.godofwondersvideo.org/
God of Wonders is a breath-taking tour of God’s creation and wonders. It demonstrates how only God could of created it all, not some cosmic accident. My 8-year old loves the DVD, especially the lighting storms. and the fantastic cinematography can't be described.
CP, steve here is a chaser of Creation threads, whose purpose is seemingly just to sow discord and disrupt discussion. See my tagline, as, since he does exhibit some of the baser attributes of a liberal, it causes suspicion.
Well I posted another thread in honor of people like him specifically devoted to debunking the “vestigial organ” argument. But yes, usually hardened hearts are not accompanied with open minds.
Regardless of how stubborn atheists may get, it’s so vital that Christians know how to defend God’s Word and be strengthened in the knowledge of GOD as the definer and controller of our OBJECTIVE reality. Faith, yes is “belief in the things unseen”, but it is not an emotion, it is not irrational or based on subjective gronds.
We live in an age now where there is just far too much evidence: archaeological, historical, scientific, etc... that the God of the Bible is indeed the Creator of the Universe and that Jesus Christ was truly His Son. Christians need to rest assured, that Jesus is not just someone they “personally” define—He was and is the Sun around which all reality past, present, and future revolves around.
“For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.” ~ Colossians 1:16
In science classes in Catholic school, we were told that what we learn in class is as close to fact as we can possibly be and what we are told in our churchs was fantasy for “uneducated old ladies.”
Problem is Genesis has two differing creation stories, and two differing flood stories. Biblical analysts call them JE (earlier) and P(later.) The book starts off with P.
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How do you arrive to this conclusion, I have studied Genesis and read Genesis 1 as an overview of creation, Genesis 2 going into details of creation.
I attended Catholic school for 12 years and was also taught evolution was fact. (I was a Theistic Evolutionist till quite recently.) It was at Catholic school, I learned the Vatican HELPS in perpetuating the Monkey Delusion and undermining the Word of God in the process. But they’ve sadly been doing that for centuries.
So many of the “malfunctions” of Creation so to speak, that anti-Designers speak of are things GOD allows to exist to remind us of our fallen state, make us aware of the earth’s futility, and our own sinfulness. By realizing things are “not as they should be” including us, God is hoping to direct us to our Savior, Christ. By rising from the dead, Christ proved His sovereignty over the powerful forces of decay and sin at work in our world and at work in our bodies.
I think of animals like black, plague-carrying rats. They sort of act as part a trailer of hell. And beautiful, colorful creatures that happen to be venomous? They remind me of the deceptive nature of sin: Beautiful on the outside, poison on the inside. Like the fruit Adam and Eve ate. Once Adam sinned, death and decay entered the world.
I think today, one of the clearest evidences of the truth of God is sexually transmitted diseases. If humans were truly meant to just “mate around,” why does HIV and HPV exist?
It’s incredible how proof of God and His work through Christ is truly in the details of all that’s around us. :) As Paul reminds us in Romans 1!
“For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”
Chapter 1:1 is P (Yahweh or’God’) created :” Heaven and Earth first, Light, waters, Heaven, Seas, plants, animals , finally man and woman last”, in that order.
But 2:7 is JE (Elohim or ‘LORD God’) created :”Man first, then plants, rivers, animals, and finally Eve from the rib” , in that order.
I would like to see ID analysis of this.
Now you did it. Homos just want love LOL. Why do you hate?
Seriously though, you are setting up a strawman with the rule ‘evolution’=’mating around’, and then proving it invalid. Evolutionists theorize that monogamy is a gene survival strategy, as well as a human cultural strategy, because humans have such long development times compared to other animals.
I am not selling this idea to you (not taking a side here) , just saying setting up strawmen and knocking them down, a favorite for creationists, is not a rational argument.
Genesis Chapter 2:4-25
** THIS SECTION FILLS IN THE DETAILS OF MAN’S CREATION ON DAY SIX. **
It is NOT a separate creation story! It is an expansion of the details of what happened on the sixth day, specifically in the Garden of Eden. Adam was created, and then God planted a garden for him and revealed animals for Adam to NAME. But plants, animals, air, all that was already in existence!
I understand why people have a vested interest in proving evolution, but failing to plainly read and understand a literary account is strange to me. (I took a “Darwinism & Judaism” class last quarter and my professor insisted that there were two creation accounts.) And even from a secular, plain, Kindergarten-level reading of the text gives no basis for such a conclusion.
“How did Moses obtain this account, so different from the absurd fictions of the pagans? Not from any human source, for man was not in existence to witness it. Not form the light of reason, for though intellect can know the eternal power of the Godhead and that GOd made all things, it cannot know how. None but the Creator Himself could give thid ata and, therefore, it is through faith that one understands that the worlds were formed by the Word of God.”
~ John Macarthur
Bump
This would be a good test for IDers that claim they are not creationists.
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