Posted on 12/24/2009 6:53:45 AM PST by rhema
Lutheran lesson for all of you ignorant people.
There are three major organizations in the US that call themselves Lutheran
ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America): A liberal anti-God, anti-American, leftist organization that is led by a group of light in the loafers libs that put their own desires before scriptures.
LCMS(Lutheran Church Missouri Synod): Conservative and rooted in the basics of scripture. Women can’t be preachers or lead the churchc.
WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod): A group that is politically to the right of Rush Limbaugh. So conservative that women are not allowed to vote or serve. They did loosen up a few years ago; women can now pass the plate during tithing.
You speak truth about the ELCA. On Good Friday in ‘08 (During O’Bozo’s campaign) I unknowingly attended an ELCA church as I was out of town. I thought since it was a Lutheran Church it should be reasonably similar to mine (Missouri Synod). I almost walked out of this steaming pile of craps sermon. Jesus’ suffering was compared to O’Bozo’s persecution by the media because of his association with the upstanding Jerimiah Wright. I kid you not. I never felt this dirty for attending a church service.
To all my fellow Freepers
Please note this is the crazy ELCA again. There are many conservative Lutheran synods that are not a part of this crazyness, and are some of the most conservative Christians you will ever meet. I wish this group of apostates would stop calling themselves Lutheran.
The Palestinians HAVE a State. It’s called JORDAN.
The ONLY Reason they want another State is to destroy Israel.
I was Missouri Synod for 28 years of my life, wandered around some, and then “returned to Rome” the Church Luther left.
Did they use the litany that said something like, "We pray for those who call upon you by other names?" I about hit the roof over that. I am LCMS now.
Absolutely sickening. This is another reason why I didn’t stick around. Mark Hanson, and his recent ilk, have truly led this denomination off the cliff.
You should have given them a “Joe Wilson” shout out. “YOU LIE”
WTF is wrong with these people? No wonder the old line churches are disintegrating.
Therefore, Luther started WWII. I get it now, idiot.
I think it is probably more accuate to say that Lutheranism was based on German culture, i.e. the bible in German, liturgy in German rather than Latin and ultimately the rejection of the Bishop of Rome and the Primacy of the Church of Rome which has been part of the Church’s traditiion going back to the end of the 1st century [St. Clement’s Letter to the Church in Corinth, St. Ignatious of Antioch’s letter in 107 AD, the Bishop of ROme excommunicating the heretic Marcion over the debate of what was canonical scripture, St. Ireneaus of Lyon in 170 AD and Canon 6 of the Council of Nicea, which also gave a secondary primacy to Antioch and Alexandria].
Thus the breakdown of Catholicity and Catholicism ultimately lead to Protestant Churches being tied to the Nation State [Church of England/Anglicanism in England, Lutheranism in Germany, Reformed Protestant in the North Holland and Scotland, etc, etc,]. Thus, what Hitler admired in Luther was his sense of German nationalism, and ultimately as securarlism and rationalism and the elevation of the individual’s conscience to arbitrate what is right or wrong apart from tradition, is what allowed ideologies that elevated the Nation State [Nazism] or Class Struggle [Communism] to become in essence the “Religion to be believed” and a rejection of the “continuity of Tradition” down through the centuries which brings one back to Rome and the Catholic Church, which has to be rejected.
So, Luther did not cause WWII, but the sense of Nationalism that seemed to coincide with Protestantism was the beginning of what lead to Indiviudalism and rationalism which were also the foundations for the miltant secularist ideologies that we saw in the last century.
I see Bishop Hanson is serving “his” fathers purpose again.
Jesus would tell him he belongs to the one he serves.
His father is the Devil.
And I suspect that some Nazis came from Roman Catholic families, as did people in every sector of the German nation, whether civil or military. However, we do not know how many Nazis, or servants of the German National Socialist Party in general, were believing and practicing (i.e., worshipping) members of whatever denomination or sect to which they had familial connections. We must try to avoid non-sequiturs.
I would not presume to speak for the Lutherans of WWII era Germany, but as a lifelong (eight decades) American and Lutheran, I will assert that I do not know any Lutherans that are or were, as a group, pro-Nazi or anti-Jewish, although it would not surprise me if a few shared the odd anti-Jew attitudes of many Americans, of various and sundry religious beliefs.
To lump all Lutherans together in terms of political or social attitudes is to paint with a very, very wide brush.
Martin Luther’s regrettable (even ultimately, I would suspect, to himself) condemnations of Jews were rather narrowly focussed in the area of religious/spiritual concerns. That God’s “chosen people” would reject the Messiah, whom Luther believed to manifest the fulfillment of God’s plan for man’s salvation, must have seemed incomprehensible to him, being an expression of the one unforgivable sin, rejection of the Holy Spirit where it should least have been expected.
And many Nazis were Catholics. Anti-Semitism was part of “Christian” Germany and Europe before Luther’s time. Look at how Spain treated it’s Jews, for example.
The ELCA does not have 4.9 million members anymore. It is only 4.6 million.
Missouri Synod bump
We...declare that the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land is a sin against God and humanity because it deprives the Palestinians of their basic human rights, bestowed by God" ...Not content to criticize the Jews, the manifesto also excoriates Christians who support Israel.
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