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Natural and Unnatural (father of 5 shocks mother of 1)
cmr ^ | January 27, 2010 | matthew archbold

Posted on 01/27/2010 10:31:28 AM PST by NYer

I was over a friend's house picking up a buddy of mine this past weekend. He wasn't ready so I ended up hanging out for a few minutes with his wife and her friend. I'd met the other woman before but don't know her all that well. She was talking a mile a minute about how "natural" she lives and how great she feels. Of course, she was telling us that we should be living the same way. She lectured me about different herbs and how she's detoxing her body.

She's been "living naturally" since New Year's Day. (Her words)

She said she feels so much better ("fantabulous!!!" was her word) and she's been doing a lot of reading about all the "unnatural" chemicals people put in their bodies and how harmful it all is.

My buddy came into the room and rolled his eyes but I didn't know her well enough to joke about it since she seemed to take it all very seriously so I listened to her. Actually, I kind of pretended to listen by just nodding my head and occasionally grunting.

In the conversation my buddy joked about me "detoxing" my five children.

"What?!" gasped the woman. "Really? You really have five kids?"

One of the funny things about writing a Catholic blog is you sometimes forget that having five kids is a lot. But around the Catholic blogosphere I read about so many people who have that many children and many more that I forget how countercultural it is to have more than two children.

Then she asked me if I was crazy?

I responded I was. (I mean, how else do you respond to that?)

"My gosh," she said, slowing herself down for a moment. "I couldn't even imagine. One's enough for me. I'm not having anymore. My husband wants more but thank God for the Pill."

Ms. Natural Living is on the Pill?

I couldn't hold me tongue so I just threw it out there. "How does all this natural living coincide with all the chemicals you're putting in your body from the Pill?"

And then she said that she needs to be on the Pill because it allows her to live naturally. If she had more children then she wouldn't have the time to live the way she wanted to live, she said.

I held my tongue after that. Remember, I was the crazy one.

Erin Manning wrote:

What a horrific lie it is, to convince millions upon millions of healthy woman that their bodies' natural fertility is a terrible disease for which a decades-long prescription to a drug engineered to fight against it is not only necessary, but imperative!
It is rather an oddity that with all this focus on natural foods that many women still don't consider birth control in the same manner.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: contraception
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1 posted on 01/27/2010 10:31:29 AM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 01/27/2010 10:31:56 AM PST by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: NYer

There is natural birth control, but it involves one’s knees.


3 posted on 01/27/2010 10:33:39 AM PST by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia

Yep... as we say here in Texas....”A good cowgirl keeps her calves together” ; )


4 posted on 01/27/2010 10:36:17 AM PST by ravingnutter
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To: NYer

Bumping this one. Ouch!


5 posted on 01/27/2010 10:36:37 AM PST by Antoninus (The RNC's dream ticket: Romney / Scozzafava 2012)
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To: La Lydia
There is natural birth control, but it involves one’s knees.

You may want to Google "natural family planning".
6 posted on 01/27/2010 10:36:52 AM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: La Lydia

Very true!

Using the pill is so counter-intuitive to good health. Estrogen supplements during menopause are pretty awful too.


7 posted on 01/27/2010 10:37:26 AM PST by OpusatFR
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To: NYer

After years of fertility problems, I did not go back on the Pill after I had my son. Actually, I tried to go back on it but stopped four days into the pack. They made me feel like crap, and I haven’t taken them since. After some research, I really don’t think that the Pill is all that safe, nor does it fix the problems that it claims to. I have PCOS and was put on the Pill when I was 16 to “help” the problem. Later I found out it only stalled the problem. After I had my son, I found out I had systemic candida and had probably had it for years. Systemic candida can cause PCOS. The Pill can help candida thrive in the body. Go figure.


8 posted on 01/27/2010 10:39:25 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

As someone who has been charting for years, that doesn’t work as birth control either.


9 posted on 01/27/2010 10:40:22 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: NYer

I think the “natural food” stuff is BS — buncha wacko granola—crunching sandal-wearing hippies ... we like our chicken hormone-laced and extra juicy.

But, the wife is on the pill — so we are consistently anti-natural (with the exception of breasts — in which case, I am extremely pro-natural. Haha.).

SnakeDoc


10 posted on 01/27/2010 10:40:33 AM PST by SnakeDoctor (Life is tough; it's tougher if you're stupid. -- John Wayne)
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To: La Lydia

After marriage, knee-related birth-control is a tough sell.

SnakeDoc


11 posted on 01/27/2010 10:43:49 AM PST by SnakeDoctor (Life is tough; it's tougher if you're stupid. -- John Wayne)
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To: goodwithagun

Don’t tell them that... people who like NFP don’t believe those of us who tell them that having PCOS makes charting pretty much impossible. *rolls eyes* or at least mostly impossible. Last time I tried charting, if I’d been trying to avoid pregnancy my hubby and I would have had about five days of “safe” time that cycle.


12 posted on 01/27/2010 10:44:52 AM PST by JenB
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To: NYer

My standard response to a living-natural-libtard (honed from years of living in Berkeley) is as follows:

Man, that is so-o-o-o cool! Pause. Do you have any idea how many nasty chemicals are in pot?

BTW, I grew up living “natural”. Only now days you’d call it “poverty”.


13 posted on 01/27/2010 10:48:20 AM PST by Happyinmygarden (Yes, actually, I have pretty much seen and heard it all before...)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

If the sin is thwarting God’s Will in terms of procreation, how is “natural” planning any better than “artificial” means? Aren’t you cheating God either way?


14 posted on 01/27/2010 10:51:14 AM PST by DManA
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To: SnakeDoctor

When my mother was born in 1919, the last of 9 kids, her mother’s birth control method was sharing her bed with my mother instead of my grandfather.


15 posted on 01/27/2010 10:53:26 AM PST by DManA
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To: DManA

This may explain it better than I ever could:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2004/jan/04010903.html


16 posted on 01/27/2010 10:53:49 AM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: SnakeDoctor
Natural AKA free range chicken is actually the one meat that there actually is a difference in taste. I have a friend that raises chickens so I get a lot of free range chicken and eggs. The eggs taste like eggs but the chicken has a much more intense flavor and texture that is very nice. She also has stewing hens which you can't seem to find any more.

But in general you are correct. "Natural" or "Organic" is mostly bunk with the following exceptions.

Chicken- Free range tend to used their muscles more and the meat gains in flavor. They also are older when harvested that also adds to the flavor.

Strawberries- Different breed then what is normally in the store. They do not ship or store well but taste wonderful.

Tomato- Once again a different breed that does not travel or store well.

Everything else pretty much tastes the same no matter if it is organic.

17 posted on 01/27/2010 10:55:44 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (I miss the competent fiscal policy and flag waving patriotism of the Carter Administration)
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To: NYer

Great post!


18 posted on 01/27/2010 10:57:26 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: DManA

>> When my mother was born in 1919, the last of 9 kids, her mother’s birth control method was sharing her bed with my mother instead of my grandfather.

Holy moly. 9 kids, and not getting any. Not sure how he did it ... I’d be a wreck.

SnakeDoc


19 posted on 01/27/2010 10:57:37 AM PST by SnakeDoctor (Life is tough; it's tougher if you're stupid. -- John Wayne)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

Excuse me but that sounds like a rationalization to me.


20 posted on 01/27/2010 10:57:54 AM PST by DManA
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To: SnakeDoctor

Grandpa had about 6 kids with his first wife who died pretty young. Then he had 9 more with my grandmother. So maybe the old guy was just warn out by that time.


21 posted on 01/27/2010 11:00:11 AM PST by DManA
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To: SnakeDoctor

Grandpa had about 6 kids with his first wife who died pretty young. Then he had 9 more with my grandmother. So maybe the old guy was just warn out by that time.


22 posted on 01/27/2010 11:00:58 AM PST by DManA
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To: DManA
Why don't you read up on Natural Family Planning and know what it really does? The couple does not sin; they only abstain during fetile times.

Natural and Unnatural (father of 5 shocks mother of 1)
NFP — It Ain’t Your Momma’s Rhythm
Responsible Parenthood in a Birth Control Culture, Part Two [Open]
Responsible Parenthood in a Birth Control Culture, Part One [Open]

Contraception v. Natural Family Planning — Part 5 of 6 [Open]
Journey to the Truth (Natural Family Planning) [Open]
Enslaving Women One Pill at a Time (Birth Control Pills and Natural Family Planning)
New Study Shows Natural Family Planning Technique More “Effective” Than Contraception
Fargo) Diocese set to require pre-marriage course in natural family planning

Making Babies: A Very Different Look at Natural Family Planning
Clerical Contraception (Important Read! By Fr. Thomas J. Euteneuer)
(Fargo) Diocese set to require pre-marriage course in natural family planning
Natural Family Planning Awareness Week, July 25, 2004
IS NATURAL FAMILY PLANNING A 'HERESY'? (Trads, please take note)

Thanks Doc: More (and Younger) Doctors Support Natural Family Planning
Couple say Natural Family Planning strengthens marriage
Reflections: Natural family planning vs sexism
British Medical Journal: Natural Family Planning= Effective Birth Control Supported by Catholic Chrch
Natural Family Planning

23 posted on 01/27/2010 11:01:36 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: JenB
What about a fertility monitor? You can match up the readings with your clinical signs.

(You didn't really have 5 days of safe time unless your cycle was incredibly short. You had 5 days of safe time that you recognized.)

24 posted on 01/27/2010 11:02:42 AM PST by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: JenB

Not only that, temp can be affected by so many things. I would get so many blips on my chart just due to waking up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom! Temp can be affected by taking Tylenol, Benadryl or even a glass of wine before bed. Then you have to take into account your stress level, which pretty much goes through the roof trying to figure out NFP!


25 posted on 01/27/2010 11:02:50 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Salvation

Oh, for spellcheck — which I didn’t use! LOL!

abstain during fertile times.


26 posted on 01/27/2010 11:03:22 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: goodwithagun
After some research, I really don’t think that the Pill is all that safe, nor does it fix the problems that it claims to.

My wife is a doc -- she says, "If the Pill had nothing to do with sex, it never would have been [FDA] approved"

27 posted on 01/27/2010 11:05:29 AM PST by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: Campion

Doesn’t matter to me right now as we’re in “having kids mode” - but it would take something like that. I just get sick of people claiming that NFP is this super birth control thing that totally works for everyone.

Obviously most days of a cycle, a woman is not fertile. But nfp type material always sounds like you can actually identify which days those are with some degree of certainty, and for a lot of women that’s just not true.


28 posted on 01/27/2010 11:07:34 AM PST by JenB
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To: Salvation

they only abstain during fetile times.

That seems to sum it up pretty well. Except for the mechanics, what’s is there to read up about?

You don’t want kids so you do something to prevent it.


29 posted on 01/27/2010 11:08:15 AM PST by DManA
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To: DManA
You don’t want kids so you do something to prevent it

Actually, she's not doing something that would cause it.

That's not quite the same thing, in anybody's morality.

I think you're operating from the tacit assumption that the objective is what determines the morality of an act, but the means by which that objective is achieved also matters.

"Not conceiving right now" is a perfectly moral objective for a married couple in some circumstances. How they achieve that objective is what's at issue.

30 posted on 01/27/2010 11:12:56 AM PST by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: SnakeDoctor

lol OBIVIOUSLY YOU DON’T HAVE 9 KIDS....


31 posted on 01/27/2010 11:15:10 AM PST by goat granny
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To: SnakeDoctor

True, true.

Expensive jewelry and buying clothes are usually the price to pay.


32 posted on 01/27/2010 11:21:11 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (Free Republic. The BEST place anywhere to PIMP YOUR BLOG)
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To: DManA

My question exactly. I can’t remember the reasoning used during our pre-marriage class (had to do precana because husband to be was Catholic), but it was pretty crazy. It reminded me of the game 6 ways to Kevin Bacon.


33 posted on 01/27/2010 11:29:21 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Campion

I respect your conviction but just don’t share it.


34 posted on 01/27/2010 11:36:48 AM PST by DManA
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To: goat granny

I have 2 — we may have a 3rd at some point. After that, its kinda over (wife’s pulling the plug biologically). Nine is a little out of the realm of possibility.

Not willing to sacrifice my nighttime social agenda, I suppose. :)

SnakeDoc


35 posted on 01/27/2010 11:38:36 AM PST by SnakeDoctor (Life is tough; it's tougher if you're stupid. -- John Wayne)
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To: goodwithagun; Carpe Cerevisi
As someone who has been charting for years, that doesn’t work as birth control either.

The 2nd child does work reasonably well.

As one wag put it, "the best birth control is....marriage."

36 posted on 01/27/2010 11:40:16 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: SnakeDoctor
I think the “natural food” stuff is BS — buncha wacko granola—crunching sandal-wearing hippies ... we like our chicken hormone-laced and extra juicy.

I once thought so, but had the fortune(and sometimes misfortune) of having to eat only food raised/grown, cooked and stored the old fashioned way. No chemicals, processing, freezing, refined grains, refined sugar, etc.

After suffering the first month or so, I realized I never felt better in my life. For nearly 6 months, I didn’t have a single day where I felt unusually tired or “blah”.

Then I (very) distinctly remember having my first greasy fast-food meal after returning to NY. I felt sick throughout my body for about a day and it actually seemed to cloud my brain.

Food production in this country has become too industrialized, powerful and unregulated, IMO. There are too many shortcuts, chemicals and additives that are pressured for approval by the food lobby. I find it sad that it’s nearly impossible to eat now without ingesting man-made chemicals.

I wish I could eat all natural again but it’s damn near impossible if you travel often.

37 posted on 01/27/2010 11:46:02 AM PST by varyouga (2 natural disasters, zerO action. Obama doesn't care about white people!)
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To: NYer

One of my friends just had her 8th child. Her husband has two other from a previous marriage. They plan 1 or 2 more.


38 posted on 01/27/2010 11:48:25 AM PST by gop4lyf (Obama wants to raise taxes and kill babies. Palin wants to raise babies and kill taxes.)
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To: SnakeDoctor

maybe you might have talked about it as an alternative before marriage


39 posted on 01/27/2010 11:52:17 AM PST by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: goodwithagun

“Temp can be affected by taking Tylenol, Benadryl or even a glass of wine before bed”

Receptivity can be affected by a glass of wine before bed too.


40 posted on 01/27/2010 11:57:36 AM PST by will of the people
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To: varyouga
Food production in this country has become too industrialized, powerful and unregulated, IMO. There are too many shortcuts, chemicals and additives that are pressured for approval by the food lobby. I find it sad that it’s nearly impossible to eat now without ingesting man-made chemicals.

Actually I think you are mistaken about the cause of this. It is the vast number of silly government regulations that are the problem not a lack of regulation. My mom went on her firs mission trip to New Orleans after the hurricane and was told she was going to run a field kitchen for the SBC disaster relief unit. She went down to where the got the food and was loading up on bags of potatoes and vegetables when the administrator said they had to get all prepackaged stuff because they had passed all of the requirements for institutional cooking and the fresh stuff had not.

She had not made mashed potatoes from anything but potatoes since, well, ever and was not pleased about having to use the instant, potato like substance they made her use.

41 posted on 01/27/2010 12:00:28 PM PST by Gordon Pym
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To: varyouga; SnakeDoctor
Do either of you watch Anthony Bourdain's "No Reservations" on the Travel Channel? This week's segment took him to Bretagne in the northwest of France. He met with a chef who sold his restaurant and has now gone into limited, home-grown foods. He also raises "happy" pigs in a clean environment. He made an astute comment on animals raised in large production facilities where their movements are constrained. It produces fear in the animal and that releases toxins.

Ultimately, you are what you eat.

42 posted on 01/27/2010 12:13:58 PM PST by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: SnakeDoctor
After marriage, knee-related birth-control is a tough sell.

I tried to convince my wife that were "natural alternatives" to knee-related birth control, but that turned out to be a tough sell too.

43 posted on 01/27/2010 12:21:25 PM PST by lafroste
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To: La Lydia

The original birth control pill is an aspirin - held firmly between the knees. ;-P


44 posted on 01/27/2010 12:22:50 PM PST by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: NYer

One would think that most animals that end up being prey feel fear before the slaughter — whether they are slaughtered commercially, or after being chased. Not seeing a lot of predators dying due to excessive fear toxicity of their meals.

I’m not really buying into the evils of commercial farming. A farming system that raises more animals to maturity using less resources and less time can produce more food for more people. This is a good thing.

Reminds me a little of the liberal groups that raised hell that people in impoverished countries were being fed genetically modified crops. Apparently it is better to starve than to eat pest-resistant crops.

SnakeDoc


45 posted on 01/27/2010 12:28:28 PM PST by SnakeDoctor (Life is tough; it's tougher if you're stupid. -- John Wayne)
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To: ravingnutter; Anoreth

Now that’s funny. A., see post #4 for a snicker.


46 posted on 01/27/2010 1:04:39 PM PST by Tax-chick (I haven't tried it, myself, but I'm told it's a delicacy in Japan.)
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To: NYer

We watch Anthony Bourdain on the Netflix beeber. He’s a goofball, but I’m totally loving his South America shows. I could *so* move to Chile and have another nine children!


47 posted on 01/27/2010 1:08:56 PM PST by Tax-chick (I haven't tried it, myself, but I'm told it's a delicacy in Japan.)
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To: La Lydia

There is natural birth control, but it involves one’s knees.

Has no one heard of condoms or pulling out? I know its high tech and all, but it works. There are other strategies I won’t go into. Shoosh.


48 posted on 01/27/2010 1:15:35 PM PST by equalitybeforethelaw
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To: Tax-chick
I could *so* move to Chile and have another nine children!


49 posted on 01/27/2010 1:48:17 PM PST by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: NYer

Or Uruguay.


50 posted on 01/27/2010 1:53:45 PM PST by Tax-chick (I haven't tried it, myself, but I'm told it's a delicacy in Japan.)
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