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Ballard speaks on Mormons in the media
Rexburg Standard Journal ^ | Feb. 1, 2010 | Nate Sunderland

Posted on 02/02/2010 12:03:56 PM PST by Colofornian

REXBURG -- A top LDS religious leader gave a rare unscripted fireside to Brigham Young University-Idaho students Saturday.

Elder M. Russell Ballard, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, focused much of his remarks on how the LDS Church is viewed by nonmembers and the media. He taught students about conveying the message of the LDS faith.

Ballard spoke candidly about experiences with the national news media, specifically touching on his experiences during former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney's presidential campaign. Romney is LDS.

The apostle talked about the challenge of defending and conveying LDS beliefs in a way that could be understood by people not affiliated with the church.

"You remember Mr. (Mike) Huckabee (who was also vying to be the Republican candidate for president), who among other things said that Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil were brothers?" Ballard asked students. "Remember that? It went all over the media.

"Well they are!" Ballard exclaimed to a laughing student body.

"But they (the media and nonmembers) don't understand that, because they don't have the (LDS gospel) restoration. They don't understand the spiritual relationship that ... we are all sons and daughters of God, and that Lucifer was one of those and (that) he chose to use his agency in an unrighteous way."

One question that Ballard says reporters frequently ask is "Why aren't Mormons Christian?" He said evangelicals have criticized that church for not being a Christian faith because the LDS Church does not consider the 4th century Nicene Creed as religious doctrine. Rather, it believes in a modern restoration.

"(We) explain to (reporters) who our Heavenly Father is, who the Lord Jesus Christ is, and who the Holy Ghost is, as revealed to us through the restoration of the gospel through the prophet Joseph Smith," said Ballard.

"It always bothered (reporters) when we would say that we just don't believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was praying to himself when he often prayed to his Heavenly Father for guidance."

Another question often asked by reporters dealt with the secretive nature of the LDS Church.

"We have almost 19,000 chapels scattered around the world, 53,000 full-time missionaries that are trying to drag people into the 19,000 chapels. We don't understand why you would say we are a secret society," Ballard said as he related his response to BYU-Idaho students.

He explained that the secretive stigma had to do with church restrictions on who can enter LDS temples.

"The world has no concept of what a temple is ... they see our temples and think our temples are like a cathedral (and because) they can't go into that cathedral ... therefore we are a secret society.

"We take great joy in explaining to them the purpose of the temple. The temple is not a meetinghouse -- the temple is a house dedicated to the Lord where his children come to make sacred covenants."

Ballard talked about spiritual ignorance or darkness among so many of God's children. He reminded students "how tremendous a thing it is to be a member of the church and to have a knowledge of who we are and where we came from."

"We understand the covenants and the commandments we need to enter into so we can go back to the presence of our Heavenly Father," Ballard said. "We understand that as members of the church. But out there even among those that are writing in religious columns -- they don't get it."

He said LDS church members "have a big job ahead of us."

"We have a tremendous responsibility as members of the church. I think we are going to have to learn to be more aggressive. I think we have to learn to be a little more effective in our ability to share what we know to be true with the world."

He also spoke briefly about the Proposition 8 controversy, and how he had received letters from LDS members questioning why the church was involved. He says the answer was simple.

Speaking of the biblical Adam and Eve, Ballard said,

"They had a charge to multiply and replenish the earth ... that is a marvelous and glorious experience to bring up children, to have and raise a family and that is done between a husband and a wife who are married.

"Marriage is a vital, important doctrine of the church, and we can't do anything about it but stand in favor of it."

He encouraged membership to treat the topic with love but said that the LDS Church cannot succumb to abandoning the "great and marvelous principle of marriage between a man and a women."

Ballard concluded his remarks by urging students not to have an "all is well in Zion," attitude.

He told students to fortify their testimonies of the restoration of the gospel.

"You must be prepared to stand for that -- and in loving, kind, gentle terms, be able to defend it and teach it. That's what the Lord expects of you and what he expects of me."

In addition to Ballard's address BYU-Idaho students also heard from two other high-ranking LDS officials, Elder Robert E. Chambers and Elder Glenn L. Pace.

As of Monday afternoon, official transcripts of the fireside had not been released.


TOPICS: Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; christian; lds; ldschurch; media; mormon; prop8; temples
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From the article:

"We have almost 19,000 chapels scattered around the world, 53,000 full-time missionaries...

53,000 missionaries? I recall 2 years ago when the Lds church says it had 60,000. Perhaps the economy has pushed a near 12% decline in missionaries.

From the article: "You remember Mr. (Mike) Huckabee (who was also vying to be the Republican candidate for president), who among other things said that Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil were brothers?" Ballard asked students. "Remember that? It went all over the media. "Well they are!" Ballard exclaimed to a laughing student body.

Here, we have an Lds general authority conceding that -- to quote him "Well they are!" in reference to the issue of whether "Jesus and the devil are brothers."

Now in case someone views that this information needs to be suppressed...not let it become aired out...or they think that we are overriding realities in our assessments of Mormonism, Elder Ballard concedes at this fireside chatm adding: "But they (the media and nonmembers) don't understand that, because they don't have the (LDS gospel) restoration. They don't understand the spiritual relationship that ... we are all sons and daughters of God, and that Lucifer was one of those and (that) he chose to use his agency in an unrighteous way."

(And here I recall how so many Mormons were expressing offense over Huckabee's comments...yet a general authority concedes they were true...that either means some Lds don't know what their church teaches, or some Lds were feigning offense when there was none)

From the article: One question that Ballard says reporters frequently ask is "Why aren't Mormons Christian?" He said evangelicals have criticized that church for not being a Christian faith because the LDS Church does not consider the 4th century Nicene Creed as religious doctrine. Rather, it believes in a modern restoration.

#1, this is a pretty simplistic assessment of what the Christian church has said about Mormonism. #2, chronologically the Mormons declared the Christian church was "apostate" long before any comments came out about the Mormon church from Christians.

So the first Q that needs to be raised is to ask Mormons why they don't think Christians are true Christians? And then, why do Mormons want to replace Christians as the only true Christian church? (Lds Doctrine & Covenants 1:30 says the Lds church is "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth"...by implication, Lds condemns then every other church as false & dead...can people then understand why the Christian church just might want to defend ourselves against this kind of charge?

From the article: "(We) explain to (reporters) who our Heavenly Father is, who the Lord Jesus Christ is, and who the Holy Ghost is, as revealed to us through the restoration of the gospel through the prophet Joseph Smith," said Ballard. "It always bothered (reporters) when we would say that we just don't believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was praying to himself when he often prayed to his Heavenly Father for guidance."

Strawman. Mischaracterization of what Christians believe. Christians have not said that Jesus and the Father are the same "Person" or "personality."

I mean, in some cultures & even our own at times, a family is defined more by that name identity than are the individual members of it. It's one family. One unity. If that's true with a tight-knit human family, then imagine how "tight-knit" God can be!

Elder Ballard implies Christians believe in ancient modalism -- meaning that it's the same one "Person" of God revealing Himself thru different modes. In other words, Father God became the Son for 33 years on earth and then became the Holy Ghost. That's modalism. And Christians have long condemned it as a heresy.

1 posted on 02/02/2010 12:03:57 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
some Lds don’t know what their church teaches, or some Lds were feigning offense when there was none

I often wonder abut this

2 posted on 02/02/2010 12:16:57 PM PST by T Minus Four (Donate to Haiti now and sponsor a Haitian child for the long term - Worldvision.com)
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To: Colofornian

He explained that the secretive stigma had to do with church restrictions on who can enter LDS temples.

“The world has no concept of what a temple is ... they see our temples and think our temples are like a cathedral (and because) they can’t go into that cathedral ... therefore we are a secret society.

“We take great joy in explaining to them the purpose of the temple. The temple is not a meetinghouse — the temple is a house dedicated to the Lord where his children come to make sacred covenants.”
___________________________________________________

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

That still doesnt explain it...

And ya know whatelse it odd ???

Jesus didnt build Himself a “temple” in order “to make sacred covenants” (whatever those secret things are)

Jesus went out into the desert and spoke to God..

How many of the mormon profits have walked out into the desert without their expensive air conditioned Cadillacs and fasted for 40 days all alone ???

How many have hugged a guy with AIDS ???

I’m told they all think they are too good to speak to their own mem,bers...

Nobody dare go up and talk to Dallin Hoaxes hes too far above them ..

So what are the “temples” really for ???

Other than outrageously priced real estate representing funds for a rainy “belonging” to the Morg and brought and built with funds scammed out of the gullible members, who go without to give to their lying swinderling masters, “tithes” teeth and all..


3 posted on 02/02/2010 12:28:51 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: T Minus Four; Colofornian; Tennessee Nana; colorcountry
some Lds don’t know what their church teaches, or some Lds were feigning offense when there was none

It's offensive, donchaknow, to speak that factual truth that the mormon church would like to hide from the world.

I still have the memory of a time when there was a concerted effort to censor ANY rebuttal to mormon proselytizing on FreeRepublic. That mind-set is still there but I believe the censorship effort has gone underground via emails instead of being seen openly on threads.

4 posted on 02/02/2010 12:37:59 PM PST by greyfoxx39 ("The Economy Is So Bad, Even 'Rosy Scenario' Lost Her Job"-Jim Geraghty)
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To: Colofornian
"You remember Mr. (Mike) Huckabee (who was also vying to be the Republican candidate for president), who among other things said that Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil were brothers?" Ballard asked students. "Remember that? It went all over the media.

"Well they are!" Ballard exclaimed to a laughing student body.

Oh my, and the mormonism apologists worked so hard to cover up their belief on this issue, even claiming their religion doesn't teach this heresy ... yes, heresy, because since Jesus is God that would put Satan prior to the advent of Jesus on earth as a 'brother god'.

Oh! Sorry, not supposed to connect the dots on this cult. I'll get back on the porch now and get out of the way of the big dogs ...

5 posted on 02/02/2010 12:46:28 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: Colofornian
"You remember Mr. (Mike) Huckabee (who was also vying to be the Republican candidate for president), who among other things said that Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil were brothers?" Ballard asked students. "Remember that? It went all over the media.

"Well they are!" Ballard exclaimed to a laughing student body.

Oh my, and the mormonism apologists worked so hard to cover up their belief on this issue, even claiming their religion doesn't teach this heresy ... yes, heresy, because since Jesus is God that would put Satan prior to the advent of Jesus on earth as a 'brother god'.

Oh! Sorry, not supposed to connect the dots on this cult. I'll get back on the porch now and get out of the way of the big dogs ...

6 posted on 02/02/2010 12:48:28 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN; Colofornian
Oh my, and the mormonism apologists worked so hard to cover up their belief on this issue, even claiming their religion doesn't teach this heresy ... yes, heresy, because since Jesus is God that would put Satan prior to the advent of Jesus on earth as a 'brother god'.

Woah, way out ahead of me on this. I'm still trying to get it figured out. This is supposed to be heavenly father's planet, yet Jesus/Jehovah get all the worship in the OT. However, Jesus/Jehovah during this period is only a spirit child since he hasn't had the opportunity to come to earth and get a body and do all the mandatory things one must do before becoming a god in the first place. pant. . . pant. . . am I missing something?

7 posted on 02/02/2010 1:44:25 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Colofornian

Imagine the odds. Your Mormon obsession continues.


8 posted on 02/02/2010 2:44:40 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Godzilla

Yes, you’re missing the exposing of the obvious antithetical nature between Christianity and what Jesus taught about Himself, and what the Mormonism doctrine reduces Him to in claiming He and Satan could even be brothers in some where/when. Chapter One of John’s Gospel makes it plain that ALL things were made for Him and By Him and through Him. Satan is a created being thus he can never be a brother to the One Whom made all and for Whom all is made. ... That’s the Mormons’ cue to try and focus the discussion on God making Satan, which when pinned to their pantheon of gods returns them to the heresy of Jesus (The One through Whom ALL was made) being at some where/when a brother to Jesus and thus a brother god. It’s all very mystical don’tchaknow. Mormonism is merely the most recent mystery religion, an update on Zoroastrianism and satanism combined.


9 posted on 02/02/2010 2:56:17 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Imagine the odds. Your Mormon obsession continues.

(Hey, if I'm "obsessed" with saving Lds; doesn't it mean you've proven you're "obsessed" with me? II, I'm flattered, but I'm "spoken for" both by Yeshua and my spouse. I mean, I am the object of a long list of your posts, right? :) )

10 posted on 02/02/2010 2:58:59 PM PST by Colofornian (As the Lds once were, the fLDS are; as the fLDS are, the LDS will become.)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

thank you for the thread bump II, your contribution to keeping this thread in the public’s eye is most touching.


11 posted on 02/02/2010 3:03:58 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: MHGinTN
"... when pinned to their pantheon of gods returns them to the heresy of Jesus (The One through Whom ALL was made) being at some where/when a brother to Jesus satan and thus a brother god." ... Got in too big of a hurry there. Sorry.

BTW, Shawn is on tonight, eleven Eastern. Or is it 10 Eastern ... those time zones confuse me, where on ends and another begins. Salt Lake City must be an hour later than Los Angeles, so it must be on at 10 Eastern. ( Was that a good enough repetition of when Shawn will be on? Muahahahahahaha )

Sounds familiar somehow

12 posted on 02/02/2010 3:04:45 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: All

Shawn McCraney can be seen and heard at http://www.hotm.tv/ on Tuesday nights, 10 Eastern. There is a link to watch live. The 1/26/2010 show is now up for viewing, if interested in the archives.


13 posted on 02/02/2010 3:07:51 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: Colofornian
(Hey, if I'm "obsessed" with saving Lds;

Saving? Lol. Delusional.

14 posted on 02/02/2010 3:22:47 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Well, something must be the case as to why you're so crazy about me...and if you think I'm "delusional" -- well, there ya go...might be one of your 29 traits you're seeking for compatibility, eh? :)
15 posted on 02/02/2010 3:26:30 PM PST by Colofornian (As the Lds once were, the fLDS are; as the fLDS are, the LDS will become.)
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To: MHGinTN

good podcasts (audio and video) for those who can’t listen live.


16 posted on 02/02/2010 4:25:22 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

II, you once told colofornian to ping you when they posted a thread about something other than mormonism.

Well they did, and pinged you and you STILL have yet to respond....

We are waiting...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2429880/posts


17 posted on 02/02/2010 5:40:25 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; Colofornian; colorcountry; SZonian; greyfoxx39; SENTINEL

Not delusional at all. There are a number of us on here who were saved and saved from the chains of Mormonism.

God does amazing things in bringing people out of that cult.


18 posted on 02/02/2010 5:45:28 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; Colofornian

Saved by the inmans or the antis, your choice.

Not delusional.

Any more questions?

SZ


19 posted on 02/02/2010 5:49:10 PM PST by SZonian (I see people who claim they are victims of "hatred" and say we should be more "productive".)
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To: reaganaut

You’ve no doubt read of the truthers, and the birthers, well, ignorant is a tweaker ... the slugs that post only to try and raise a response, negative preferrably. There are several in the club. That particular one named itself well don’tyathink?


20 posted on 02/02/2010 5:53:16 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: reaganaut; Invincibly Ignorant
We are waiting...

do DO Do do Do DO Do Do DO Do DO DO DODoDododo,

21 posted on 02/02/2010 5:57:53 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla; Invincibly Ignorant

I’ll take crickets for $1000, Alex.


22 posted on 02/02/2010 6:03:42 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: Godzilla

Thanks for the reminder, ‘zilla. I always forget. :)


23 posted on 02/02/2010 6:04:24 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: MHGinTN; Invincibly Ignorant

I agree. II, IS aptly named.


24 posted on 02/02/2010 6:05:16 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: Colofornian
Well, something must be the case as to why you're so crazy about me...and if you think I'm "delusional"

You're from my state and its embarrassing. You're no better off than a Mormon. You're delusional.

25 posted on 02/02/2010 7:56:57 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Godzilla
Tonight's show was a good one! The topic was 'atonement'. Shawn covered Tyndale's creating that word (in the 16th century, and I have a copy of Tyndale's translation, so I can verify that one quickly), yet it was used by Smith in his fictional B of M, in Nephi, IIRC.

Shawn did a great job of comparing and contrasting the Mormonism meaning of atonement and the Christianity meaning.

26 posted on 02/02/2010 8:04:22 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: Godzilla
Shawn is going into the "B" category of words next week, so I think I'll write to him and cover that 'satan is a brother god to Jesus' notion as a fallacy in mormonism. He might get a kick out of it.
27 posted on 02/02/2010 8:06:36 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; Colofornian

You’re no better off than a Mormon. [II]

- - - - - - -
Actually he is a lot better off than Mormons. When he dies he is going to the presence of God the Father because he trusted Jesus Christ to save him rather than trusting the LDS Church.

Makes a HUGE difference.


28 posted on 02/02/2010 8:33:38 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: MHGinTN

It was a good episode tonight. He did a great job of explaining the differences and how the LDS water down the work of Christ.


29 posted on 02/02/2010 8:34:48 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

30 posted on 02/02/2010 8:44:54 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; Godzilla
II, Yeshua the Messiah loves you. I love you. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob isn't embarrassed by you. As Godzilla says, t'anks for bumpin' the thread. Please visit anytime.

Deuteronomy 13:1-4:

1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods"[plural]
(gods [plural] you have not known) [many think the Messiah was the pre-incarnate "Angel of the Lord" (theophany); therefore the Israelites DID know Him!
"and let us worship them," [again, "them" is plural]
3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.

My points?
(1) Yeshua didn't advocate other "gods" (plural)
(2) Yeshua was no stranger to the Israelites. Jacob wrestled with him. He appeared to Zorah in the book of Judges & talked about a conception to come. He appeared to Gideon, where fire consumed the unleavened bread (just like the fiery wrath of heaven came down upon Messiah, the bread sent from heaven). Or don't you find it interesting what Zechariah said in Zech. 3?

1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?" [My note: Don't you find it interesting that even high-ranking angels like Michael the Archangel would not even rebuke Satan? 9But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 9) Only a "Lord" could rebuke him.]
3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes." Then he said to Joshua, "See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you."

This "Angel of the Lord" told Joshua He had removed His sin, and placed rich garments upon Him -- the same image of what we see in the book of Revelation. Our own clothes are ragged; filthy, said Isaiah. But Jesus places a white pure garment upon us. You will appear beautiful to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob on that day, wearing His robe.

Finally, II...Deut. 13:4 says we must "revere" the Lord your God...and staying in Deut...going to 32:43 in the Masoretic Text/Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint) -- these say, and let all the angels worship him. Now who is the "Him" referenced here?

Well, the Jewish writer who wrote the book of Hebrews cites the above in Heb. 1:6: And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

Now who is this "firstborn," II? The "firstborn" whom God has commanded the angels to worship? Think of all the wonderful Christmas carols you've heard. Beautiful music. Inspirational music. Some songs that sing of angels worshipping a certain babe. The invitational God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would absolutely love it if you joined in on those carols next Christmas season.

Signed, His emissary, lowest rank.

31 posted on 02/02/2010 10:13:01 PM PST by Colofornian (As the Lds once were, the fLDS are; as the fLDS are, the LDS will become.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Like the Old Testament, the New Testament teaches that there is only one God (Mk 12:29; Eph 4:6; Jas 2:19), who is pure spirit (Jn 4:24; 1 Jn 4:12), the creator of the world (1 Ti 4:4; Heb 3:4), holy and good (Ro 3:4; Eph 4:24; Rev 4:8), all-powerful (Mt 19:26; Mk 2:7, 10:18) and worthy of mankind’s worship and love (Mt 6:24; Mk 11:22; Lk 2:14).


32 posted on 02/02/2010 10:29:52 PM PST by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose

The Christian God is a personal God. This does not mean that God is a human being, but that God has “personality” and the capability of both relationships with other personal beings. This is seen clearly in both the Old and New Testaments, in which God is described in strongly personal terms (father, shepherd, etc.) and establishes relationships with human beings.


33 posted on 02/02/2010 10:33:05 PM PST by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose
"We understand the covenants and the commandments we need to enter into so we can go back to the presence of our Heavenly Father," Ballard said. "We understand that as members of the church. But out there even among those that are writing in religious columns -- they don't get it."

BIRTH

by W. John Walsh

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee…"

Latter-day Saints believe that every member of the human family is an eternal being. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught : "The spirit of man is not a created being; it existed from eternity, and will exist to eternity."  While each person is eternal, he or she goes through "successive phases"  of existence. Each of these phases is marked by a birth or change, including our spirit birth, our mortal birth, and our spiritual conversion. This series of births is not to be confused with  reincarnation, a belief which the Church rejects.

Each birth is a milestone that marks achievement of a higher state of development than previously enjoyed. Eventually, if we are faithful to the  plan of salvation, this series of births increases our "capacity to grow in grace, knowledge power and intelligence itself, until [we], gaining the fulness of all things, become like [our] Father, the Supreme Intelligence." However, if we are not faithful to the proscribed plan, then our progression is stopped and we never complete the intended journey or reach the final milestone. President Joseph F. Smith taught:

"What is  damnation? It is being barred, or denied privileges of progression, because of failure to comply with law. All who fail to enter into the celestial kingdom are damned, or stopped in their progression, but they will enter into some  other glory which they are entitled to receive."

Mankind began in the  premortal world as spirit element which has always existed and is co-eternal with God. Our first birth occurred when our "self-existent spirit element [was] born as spirit children" to our Heavenly Parents who used "the ordained procreative process…" The First Presidency noted: "All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity." Since "this birth constituted the beginning of the human ego as a conscious identity," it is a higher form of existence than that enjoyed previously as spirit element.

Mortal birth, our second birth, "is the event by which one's spirit body is temporarily joined with a mortal tabernacle begotten by earthly parents." Beings with physical bodies are in a higher state of development than beings without such bodies:

"In contrast to the view that the subtle powers of intellect or soul must finally transcend the body or anything corporeal, the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that all beings ‘who have tabernacles (bodies), have power over those who have not’ (TPJS, p. 190; 2 Ne. 9:8). At minimum, this is taken to mean that intellectual and spiritual powers are enhanced by association with the flesh. It follows that a long absence of the spirit from the body in the realm of disembodied spirits awaiting resurrection will be viewed not as a beatific or blessed condition, but instead as a bondage (D&C 45:17; 138:50). Moreover, ‘spirit and element [the spirit body and the physical body], inseparably connected, [can] receive a fulness of joy. And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy’ (D&C 93:33, 34)."

Mortal birth is the first milestone which some members of the human family never reach. In the premortal world, some spirit children of our Heavenly Father rebelled against him. As punishment, the progression of these souls— Lucifer and his devils—has been stopped and "they remained unembodied" and are forever denied the opportunity to receive a mortal body.

While receiving a physical body is crucial to our continued eternal development, it is not sufficient to realize our full potential as divine children of our Heavenly Parents. When we are born into mortality, we experience a form of spiritual death—or separation from the presence of God, as a result of the Fall of Adam. To overcome the effects of this spiritual death, it is necessary that we are born again. Christianson explained:

"Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ all people are given opportunity to be born again in a spiritual sense as his sons and daughters so as to return to God's presence as his spiritually begotten children (Mosiah 5:7-9; Alma 5:14). The process of being born of the spirit begins when one is baptized and receives the gift of the Holy Ghost. Since the Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead, the effects of the spiritual death, or separation between man and God, is lessened individually when one is truly born of the Spirit."

A spiritually reborn person enjoys the "constant companionship of  the Holy Ghost," "the third member of the Godhead." With this companionship, a person ascends to a higher state of development and receives insights into the "solemnities of eternity" as well as  purification from all sin. Eventually, he will be prepared to live again with his Heavenly Father as an exalted being. Unfortunately, most people will abuse their agency and reject this rebirth. Thus, few people will reach this final milestone and thus enter into  Godhood

Link


34 posted on 02/03/2010 7:08:38 AM PST by greyfoxx39 ("The Economy Is So Bad, Even 'Rosy Scenario' Lost Her Job"-Jim Geraghty)
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To: MHGinTN

I look forward to hearing that one. FYI he also maintains a pdf copy of his teaching - handy to d/l and read for future references. I’ve noticed that since he’s started this series,he’s gotten quite a few first time mormon callers - he’s got their attention!


35 posted on 02/03/2010 7:54:18 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla
When listening on Tuesday nights, 10 Eastern time, via www.hotm.tv ( ;^)), you can tell some of his questioners are FARMS operatives. The call screeners allow the occasional FARMS shill to get on air. HOWEVER, the calls from genuine Mormon seekers of the truth are far and away the most instructive to the non-mormon listeners. In fact, the program is so effective, I think I'll send in a donation.
36 posted on 02/03/2010 8:06:12 AM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

I don’t know if I’d call them FARMS operatives any more than they are TBMs with superiority complexes. But you are correct in that the genuine mormons are very instructive to all groups mormon and non mormon.


37 posted on 02/03/2010 8:09:51 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: BlueMoose

This is an good example that that mainstream are clue less and have no understanding of the difference between the body and soul.

Now is there a knowledge of why the Lord is trying man in this probationary state.

The tradition of men have short circuit mainstream minds and the Word of God.

If the being does not bridle the bodies passions which includes behavior towards their fellowman and become pure in heart those souls will not be able to endure the presents of the Lord.

If the resurrected being is not pure in heart it will receive a body but not a celestial one anything less will not be able to endure the presents of the God the Father because it would disintegrate in the presents of Heavenly Father!

Daily like a battering ram the anti’s kick against the prick!


38 posted on 02/03/2010 8:15:12 AM PST by restornu (Daily like a battering ram the anti's kick against the prick!)
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To: restornu

Thanks for bumping the thread resty - giving more people the opportunity to see the falsehoods of smith’s teachings all the more. We are gratified you chose today to register your comment.


39 posted on 02/03/2010 9:07:35 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla

Daily like a battering ram the clue less anti’s kick against the prick!


40 posted on 02/03/2010 9:14:27 AM PST by restornu (Daily like a battering ram the clue less anti's kick against the prick!)
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To: restornu

Why thanks again resty - more will read the article and see that mormonism is a farce - as well as more and more mormons being exposed to the hypocracy of its leadership.


41 posted on 02/03/2010 9:26:24 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla

you are welcome it is called seperating the wheat from the tares.

Those who agree with daily railings are NOT of the Lord!


42 posted on 02/03/2010 9:42:05 AM PST by restornu (Daily like a battering ram the clue less anti's kick against the prick!)
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To: restornu
Those who agree with daily railings are NOT of the Lord!

What do you have against railroads?

43 posted on 02/03/2010 9:44:35 AM PST by Osage Orange (Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Anyone Who Threatens It)
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To: Osage Orange

Those who agree with daily railings are NOT of the Lord!

What do you have against railroads?

****

1 Tim 6
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

1 Peter 3
8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.


44 posted on 02/03/2010 10:16:00 AM PST by restornu (Daily like a battering ram the clue less anti's kick against the prick!)
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To: restornu
You should've seen and heard J. Smith and B. Young rail in their day.

Wow....I bet that was a sight to behold.

Of course I'm convinced they were NOT of the Lord.

45 posted on 02/03/2010 10:28:57 AM PST by Osage Orange (Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Anyone Who Threatens It)
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To: restornu
Those who agree with daily railings are NOT of the Lord!

Oh really? the railings of 53,000 missionaries against the True Church of Jesus Christ mean nothing to you then. Thanks for the clarification.

46 posted on 02/03/2010 10:49:58 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: restornu; Osage Orange
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

Paul's talking about the general again.


47 posted on 02/03/2010 10:55:09 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla

Nice painting of a horse.


48 posted on 02/03/2010 11:42:59 AM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: Colofornian

Sorry those writings arent inspirational.


49 posted on 02/03/2010 11:51:37 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: MHGinTN

50 posted on 02/03/2010 11:52:18 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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