“Roman Catholic or Latin Rite Catholic is only one of the rites of the Catholic Church (those under the See of Rome). So Catholic is more correct but Roman Catholic does not bother me, but it does leave out quite a few Catholics.”
I ask because Protestants are criticized by many Catholics in that there are these divisions: Presbyterian, Methodist, Congregational, etc.
I often state my observation from having lived in several Asian countries where there ar Catholics that the Catholic Church is not so Catholic as it seems to want to present itself.
Since Catholicism in various regions of the world, it would appear, adopt into it localisms and regionalisms in religious matters, structure, who may be admitted and who is restricted, etc.
Many Catholics in Asia, for example, also keep Buddhist practices, along with sympbols of Buddhist deities on the same “god shelves” with figurines of Mary and Joseph, etc., to which all at the same time have incense burned to them, prayers made to them, etc. Many Catholics in the Philippines and in China still call the Buddhist Fengshui practitioners to help them design their buildings or decorate their houses according to ancient deep-rooted superstitions. Many still call for the lion/dragon dancers to drive away evil spirits (they say) when they move in to a new house or open a new business location. Mant still use fireworks not merely for celebration but for cleansing a place from unclean sppirits.
So, why aren’t Presbyterians, Methodists, Congregationalists, others, merely accepted as different “rites” of Protestantism as there are varying rites in Catholicism (some not even being under the See of Rome)?
Prior to WWII there was actually much more cooperation between the Protestant “denominations” in public evangelist crusades, and this even extended into somewhat later efforts such as the Billy Graham and other Crusades.
I am not an endorser of ecumenism, actually, as I don’t believe their should be human programs to pressure churches or denominations to unite, so I don’t want this post to express that I am suggesting this in the slightest.
I am not a NCC or WCC supporter or endorser at all.
I am merely making the point that whereas Protestants have their various denominations which have the capacitiy to work together, and often do (e.g. National Association of Evangelicals), as their are varying “rites” within “Catholicism,” where does the criticism against the Protestants (in this regard) stand?
You wrote:
“Now I’m curious as to just how many “rites” there are within what is called “Catholic.” How many(?) and can they be named?”
There are 22 as far as I can remember, but I may be off by one or two. And yes, they can all be named. They are all listed - every years - in the Catholic almanac for instance and you can find the list on line.
“I ask because Protestants are criticized by many Catholics in that there are these divisions: Presbyterian, Methodist, Congregational, etc.”
Because you have divisions.
There are four principal rites, Latin, Antiochan, and Alexandrian, and a variant of the Antiochan called the Byzantine.
The various rites are unified into one church, recognizing the doctrinal unity and perfection of the sacraments among each other. In the early church, there were various orders (”scripts”) of Mass, which were growing more dissimilar; the Latin Patriarchate had become so vast and diverse that priests familiar with one rite wouldn’t necessarily know how to properly perform the rite in another land. So, in the fifth century, Pope Gregory the Great established a uniform rite throughout the Latin Patriarchate, based on the most prevalent order at the time. Certain cities (i.e., Milan, Toledo) were permitted to retain their historical rites, and have to this day. But a Milano feels no qualm that a Gregorian parish isn’t “his church.” There are other slight cultural variations within rites; the Byzantine Rite includes Romanian, Greek, Melkite, Ruthenian, etc.
There is a difference between the diversity of Catholic rites and that between the various Protestant churches. Despite their diversity, all the Catholic rites are united in faith and share a common communion under the pope. The differences are mostly about worship style: “I say tomato and you say tomaato.” The various Protestant churches, on the other hand, lack a common communion (This idea of common communion based upon apostolic succession is an important matter with Catholics that Protestants may not fully appreciate). Additionally, there are major differences in belief between the various Protestant churches: “I say tomato and you say roast beef.” I would hazard to say that there is a greater difference between the Calvanists and the Lutherans than between the latter and Catholics (At least this was Martin Luther’s opinion).
That's syncretism, not a different Catholic rite.
The different rites (the better term is "church sui iuris") are in full communion with one another, and teach the same faith (though their emphases and ways of expressing it are sometimes different).
You keep saying that like you have some sort of cultural orthodoxy requirement for Christianity that you strictly maintain. How does the retention of certain cultural influences of Buddhism in Asia differ from Christians having Christmas Trees, Holly, Yule Logs, Easter Bunnies, Easter Eggs, New Years celebrations, and Thanksgiving Feasts?
The non Latin Rite Catholics are also under the See of Rome which makes them part of the Catholic Church, not separate denominations. I believe NYer is a Byzantine Catholic and she can probably explain the better than I. This Wikipedia article offers a very good description of the Eastern Rite Churches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches
As for people keeping some of the spiritual practices of non Christian beliefs I admit to having a problem with that. And I hope the Bishops in that region speak strongly against the weakening and comingling of the faith.
I think the main criticism of multi denominational Protestantism comes about because though all claim the Bible as their final authority there is such a variance of beliefs one can not help but question; if everything necessary for our salvation can be made known by the plain reading of Scripture, why do so many reach different conclusions?
And even those Protestant denominations which do have a confession of faith or articles of faith which outline clearly the tenents of that denomination are being torn apart now by those who believe Christians must bow to the demands of the secular world. And I know Catholics are not immune to this. But as a whole we are a lot less vulnerable to it, because there is a teaching magesterium.
The good thing for Protestants is usually the dissenters go on and form their own denomination. Or join one that shares their beliefs. For Catholics they usually stick around having fancy pageants where they play priest. Or go off on some nuttering idiocy about the Divine Feminism. But they don’t want to just leave, nope they want the Church to become what they demand she become. So they stick around like 10 miles of bad road rash.
But anyone who is familiar with the teachings of the Church can say with full confidence that these mooks are not Catholic. There is somebody to say that the conclusions they have reached are wrong. That Jesus did not die on the Cross and get His bones scattered by wild dogs in the desert. That two men may not ever, ever be married. That abortion is a grave evil.
Now your church may teach that Christ truly rose from the dead. That only a man and woman may join in marriage. That abortion is the slaughter of innocents. But there may be within the same denomination a variance of beliefs regarding such things as Christ’s divinity, homosexual marriage, abortion, and birth control. And not just amongst the congregation but amongst the clergy and others charged with teaching and safe guarding the faith.
So you have division within the denomination. And too often nobody has the authority to censure them.
But you asked how having separate Catholic Rites is different from having separate denominations. Protestant have separate churches because they have different beliefs on issues which many consider central to salvation. Issues such as: Baptism, Holy Communion, Justification, and Predestination. And it would be dishonest to remain in a denomination that taught Baptism was a sacrament when you believed it was not one. And no self respecting minister would teach that it was simply a matter of personal opinion and it could be both.
But all Catholic rites share the same beliefs but they may use a different form to express that belief. For example, as I understand it, Latin Rite Catholics are the ministers of the sacrament of marriage. In the Eastern Rite the priest is the minister. But both rites believe marriage is a sacrament. The essential belief remains the same.
I hope that helps clear things up a bit. God bless you.
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Exactly my thought
What you describe is the essence of Catholicism.
This is the practice that led the Roman church to embrace the same ancient idolatry that got Israel into trouble constantly, simply renaming Ashta as Mary. - We see it presently in Haiti where the local Voodoo was absorbed into the church.
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