TIME names "New Calvinism" 3rd Most Powerful Idea Changing the World

TIME Magazine ^ | March 12, 2009 | David Van Biema

[P-Marlowe]

Right. There is a spectrum of beliefs about God’s interaction with creation with some claiming one set of conditions while others claim another set of conditions. Depending upon where you fall in that spectrum will disclose whether one is a fatalist, a demi-god, or neither.

Well I'm glad you think so. But I have no idea what you just said.

BTW you never answered this question: Who is in control of your destiny?

[kosta50]

You've perhaps spent too much time in a faith that extols mysticism over a rational God

Is it possible that maybe you have spent too much time in a faith that extols God measured by human reason than an inconceivable God?

While Christianity is a supernatural faith, it is not a mystical faith

So supernatural and rational is one and the same thing?

That, coupled with the good fruits of the Holy Spirit, witnessed, experienced and understood to be valid when submitted to the scrutiny of the Scriptures...

Circular reasoning. Scriptures prove God and God proves scriptures.

[kosta50]

Asking questions isn't wrong unless you never find the answer. Then it's just sad.

Yes it's sad that those who claim they kow can't say what it is they believe in.

Life is more than speculation Have some kids, Kosta. Then you'll see Him.

I have kids. Please stop making this about me and make it about my questions. I don't delve into your family, life style, etc. unless you volunteer that information. I also don't jump to silly conclusions such as "she must not have kids..."

[the_conscience]

Sure I did.

[P-Marlowe]

What was your answer? I musta missed it.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

many a magician could do that trick and demand she worship them.

LOL. Exactly right.

"It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." -- Matthew 4:7

[kosta50]

I dunno P-Marlowe. Maybe it's really just a cry for help? In disguise?

Please stop analyzing me and making this about me and see if you can just answer my questions instead.

He needs "proof" of God, because that is what constitutes "certainty" for him. If he can't get "proof" of God, then he doesn't have to take Him seriously.

More mind reading. RM, please put and end to this charade, or else I will respond in kind.

[kosta50]

It really sounds like one who is refusing (or afraid) to engage life

It really sounds like you are above you paygrade. Please cocnentrate on what I ask not speculate what I am.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Following up on your asking “what is God,” could you say whether or not you pray?

[kosta50]

Pickle indeed, how can a life be lead with that level of certainity? How can one be certian of ANYTHING

Maybe you can tell me, because all I see is statements like "God IS" the Bible "is true, believers are "certain of their salvation," etc. Sounds like something pretty certain, yet it's all based on faith alone, but presented as certainty.

What level of 'proof' does one use when eating food that it is not contaminated. What level of 'proof' does one use for any other day-to-day action.

Indeed, what level of proof does one use when saying that God IS? In everyday life we take chances. Being certain of one's salvation doesn't sound like a chance, yet there is no proof whatsoever that it is so; it's all based on one's personal belief, wish, desire, hope, susperstition, whatever.

Everyday life's uncertainties do not require blind faith in uncertainty. Religion does.

[kosta50]

But Thomas eventually believed

He got what he asked for.

If you never believe, what does that say about your salvation?

And I answered him "Salvation from what?"

[Forest Keeper]

Well I don’t think it’s right to throw her back, so can I keep her?

If you can get K's permission, then you have my blessing.

I will offer her safe refuge in the High Council's Forest. I don't want to do it, but I feel I OWE it to her. Of course a suitable hut for her will require cashing in more beer cans, so I will get to work on that right away.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"Salvation from what?

An eternity apart from God.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"Salvation from what?

An eternity apart from God.

[the_conscience]

Before I answer that let me ask you a question. You gave a couple of definitions for fatalism:

1. The doctrine that all events are predetermined by fate and are therefore unalterable. 2. Acceptance of the belief that all events are predetermined and inevitable.

Looking at the first definition it's self-referential so we need a definition of fate:

1. a. The supposed force, principle, or power that predetermines events.
b. The inevitable events predestined by this force.

2. A final result or consequence; an outcome.

3. Unfavorable destiny; doom.

4. Fates Greek & Roman Mythology The three goddesses, Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos, who control human destiny.

Are there any biblical narratives that fit any of the above definitions and if so does the Bible teach fatalism?

[kosta50]

You will never* get the proof you are asking for. I suspect you already know that though.

Thomas got his proof. Jesus says ask and it shall be given. Seek and you shall find.

I only asked what is God.

God is the way He is even if YOU don't understand.

I am not the one who claims he can be understood. Some Christians do. You may want to direct your comments to the them.

*At least while you are alive.

And those in heaven (or hell) are not alive?

[kosta50]

Wow, kosta... You must have really hit a nerve. That’s one of nastier attacks I’ve seen on the religious forums

It seems to be 'open season' on Religion Forum. I get at least a couple of posts on each page about me, my motives, my being lost, not engaging or being afraid to engage life, suggesting that I "have kids," etc. Quite pathetic.

[P-Marlowe]

Are there any biblical narratives that fit any of the above definitions and if so does the Bible teach fatalism?

Yes and yes.

Now, who controls your destiny?

[kosta50]

I believe in God. I don't have to prove it to anybody. It's my belief. I'm not so thick that I'd claim to "know" there is a God, because I realize God cannot be proven.

A voice of reason.

[kosta50]

I’m more interested in the factors that contribute to someone taking a pseudo-super-rationalist perspective to begin with . . . and doggedly sticking to it regardless of the irrational contradictions entailed

You just descirbed religion.