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To: Godzilla
But to believe they presented EVIDENCE of personal eyewitnesses...

Again, exstrabibical witness is lacking. You stubbornly repeat what's in the Bible, as if that somehow "proves" it, and I keep saying it cannot be corroborated because there is a conflcit of interest, but must be believed on faith alone. Why can't you just admit it?

1,091 posted on 03/12/2010 10:02:17 PM PST by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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To: kosta50; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; spirited irish; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix; MHGinTN
Again, exstrabibical witness is lacking. You stubbornly repeat what's in the Bible, as if that somehow "proves" it, and I keep saying it cannot be corroborated because there is a conflcit of interest, but must be believed on faith alone.

Extra biblical support is present - in-spite of your attempts to poison the well. Do you want your vain attempts exposed again? You reject anything from the bible - why can't you admit it?

1,163 posted on 03/13/2010 7:58:30 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Quix; P-Marlowe; Godzilla; xzins
This particular poster continues to assert that there is no extra-Biblical evidence of Jesus in His role as Deliverer / Savior. The poster reaches even further to claim that there is no extra-Biblical evidence for the resurrection. But there is a whole lot, understood as follows:

Persecution of believers in Christ's resurrection and His divinity is very real evidence of something. Let's briefly look at what it is evidence for.

When rulers demanded that believers deny their belief in Christ as Savior and Lord, and the penalty was death if they did not reject disabuse belief, that these same people were put on trial in some cases, and summarily slaughtered in other cases is indeed evidence that they believed in His resurrection, even unto their own death!

Since the Bible tells us that Jesus was seen by as many as 500 at one time following His resurrection, we may accept that many of these same witnesses were the victims of this deadly effort to get them to reject Him in the role He taught them He came for. Indeed, the witness testimony of perhaps most of these witnesses to the resurrected Lord were the evangelicals of that day, and were no doubt responsible for the 'conversion' of thousands, many of whom were then the persecuted as the years rolled on.

Taking just the twelve Apostles and later the 'born out of time' Apostle Paul, every one except John the Beloved died horrific deaths for their steadfast belief and spoken eyewitness testimonies!

It is one thing to doubt the relating of the events, but quite another thing to reject the eyewitness testimonies of those who were slaughtered for their steadfastness in holding to the truth of His resurrection!

Paul seemed to anticipate the determined rejection of eyewitness testimonies when he explained how he received the Good News, and how often he consulted with James, Peter, and John--all three direct eyewitnesses of the resurrection, and one, James, who was determined to not believe right up until the resurrection, because James the brother of Jesus was a devout Jew.

It may be convenient to reject the stories of the miracles performed at the hands of the Apostles following the Resurrection of Our Lord, but it is quite irrational to so steadfastly reject the eyewitness testimonies of the twelve who died painfully for not rejecting their memories of seeing Him after His crucifixion!

The deaths of so many martyrs is indeed extra-Biblical evidence of an extraordinary kind, Historically verified, and we may accept that many of these were in deed direct eyewitnesses to His resurrection! ... And there are in fact secular sources which confirm the ministry and Resurrection of Jesus, but I sense that kosta50 would reject even secular sources since they do not engender his personally determined disbelief.

1,209 posted on 03/13/2010 11:54:51 AM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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