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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Quix; P-Marlowe; Godzilla; xzins
This particular poster continues to assert that there is no extra-Biblical evidence of Jesus in His role as Deliverer / Savior. The poster reaches even further to claim that there is no extra-Biblical evidence for the resurrection. But there is a whole lot, understood as follows:

Persecution of believers in Christ's resurrection and His divinity is very real evidence of something. Let's briefly look at what it is evidence for.

When rulers demanded that believers deny their belief in Christ as Savior and Lord, and the penalty was death if they did not reject disabuse belief, that these same people were put on trial in some cases, and summarily slaughtered in other cases is indeed evidence that they believed in His resurrection, even unto their own death!

Since the Bible tells us that Jesus was seen by as many as 500 at one time following His resurrection, we may accept that many of these same witnesses were the victims of this deadly effort to get them to reject Him in the role He taught them He came for. Indeed, the witness testimony of perhaps most of these witnesses to the resurrected Lord were the evangelicals of that day, and were no doubt responsible for the 'conversion' of thousands, many of whom were then the persecuted as the years rolled on.

Taking just the twelve Apostles and later the 'born out of time' Apostle Paul, every one except John the Beloved died horrific deaths for their steadfast belief and spoken eyewitness testimonies!

It is one thing to doubt the relating of the events, but quite another thing to reject the eyewitness testimonies of those who were slaughtered for their steadfastness in holding to the truth of His resurrection!

Paul seemed to anticipate the determined rejection of eyewitness testimonies when he explained how he received the Good News, and how often he consulted with James, Peter, and John--all three direct eyewitnesses of the resurrection, and one, James, who was determined to not believe right up until the resurrection, because James the brother of Jesus was a devout Jew.

It may be convenient to reject the stories of the miracles performed at the hands of the Apostles following the Resurrection of Our Lord, but it is quite irrational to so steadfastly reject the eyewitness testimonies of the twelve who died painfully for not rejecting their memories of seeing Him after His crucifixion!

The deaths of so many martyrs is indeed extra-Biblical evidence of an extraordinary kind, Historically verified, and we may accept that many of these were in deed direct eyewitnesses to His resurrection! ... And there are in fact secular sources which confirm the ministry and Resurrection of Jesus, but I sense that kosta50 would reject even secular sources since they do not engender his personally determined disbelief.

1,209 posted on 03/13/2010 11:54:51 AM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: Tennessee Nana; Dr. Eckleburg

Ping a lin a ling


1,210 posted on 03/13/2010 11:57:09 AM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

WELL PUT.

THX.


1,216 posted on 03/13/2010 12:05:56 PM PST by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: MHGinTN
Taking just the twelve Apostles and later the 'born out of time' Apostle Paul, every one except John the Beloved died horrific deaths for their steadfast belief and spoken eyewitness testimonies!

On kosta's view, they all died needlessly for a lie. Does this make any sense?

Plus if Christ had not been resurrected, there would have been no empty tomb. Simply producing the Body would have constituted irrefutable proof that he was simply another dead mortal; that would instantly have ended all speculation regarding His resurrection — and divinty.

Thank you ever so much for your beautiful essay/post, MHGinTN!

1,224 posted on 03/13/2010 1:10:14 PM PST by betty boop (Moral law is not rooted in factual laws of nature; they only tell us what happens, not what ought to)
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To: MHGinTN
The deaths of so many martyrs is indeed extra-Biblical evidence of an extraordinary kind, Historically verified, and we may accept that many of these were in deed direct eyewitnesses to His resurrection! ... And there are in fact secular sources which confirm the ministry and Resurrection of Jesus,

Precisely so!

Thank you oh so very much for your testimony and insights, dear brother in Christ!

1,258 posted on 03/13/2010 10:08:33 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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