Posted on 03/13/2010 4:21:42 PM PST by Colofornian
PROVO, Utah -- Those who were responsible for the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum on June 27, 1844, were not who might you think they were, according to one presenter at the BYU Studies 50th Anniversary Symposium.
Debra Marsh, a master's student at the University of Utah, presented evidence Friday that the members of the Illinois mob that sought to put an end to Mormonism at Carthage Jail didn't rot away because of "the Mormon curse," as N.B. Lundwall claimed in his book, "The Fate of the Persecutors of the Prophet Joseph Smith," but went on to live normal lives.
Another characterization from B.H. Roberts found in the introduction to volume 6 of the History of the Church, which called the mob a "criminal element" and "ruffians" isn't correct, either, Marsh said.
Marsh, in her paper "Respectable Assassins: A Collective Biography and Socioeconomic Study of the Carthage Mob," said that contrary to popular belief the mobsters did not suffer for their actions, and actually were respected people who went on to greater accomplishments.
"The Carthage mob members lived normal life spans, through which they prospered financially," Marsh said. "They ran for and won political office, and generally appear to be protected and honored by their fellow citizens for their participation in the murders of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. "
Marsh used a list of 89 men compiled by Sheriff Jacob Backenstos and a variety of other records to paint a picture of who these mobsters were. According to her research, while they came from the same regions of the country as others who lived in the area, mobsters were generally older than the general male population of Hancock County and were mostly learned professionals, businessmen and farmers who had their own property. The mob also had 16 men who held 24 different public offices, including state senator and U.S. senator. A large majority of the mob would have been considered in the upper class.
"This was a group of men that represented the top tier of Hancock county, in regards to power and socioeconomic status."
Marsh then showed what happened to the mob after the martyrdom of the Smith brothers.
"Most of these individuals seem to have lived normal life spans in which they prospered," Marsh said. "Obviously, living a long life doesn't necessarily translate into good fortune. But if financial well-being is an indicator of the quality of one's life, then they lived quite well."
In 1850, the average earnings of the mob were barely more than the U.S. average, with mobsters earning $1,540 compared to $1,050 for the average American. But at the end of the decade, mobsters had increased their earnings by 249 percent, or five times the national average, earning an average of $7,842 compared to $2,140. One member, Mark Aldrich, was extremely successful in the California Gold Rush and later became a merchant in Tucson, Ariz., with his personal estate valued at $50,000. Another, Jacob C. Davis, ended up being a state senator and eventually a U.S. senator for Illinois. Mob members held 24 public offices between 1844 and 1856.
Marsh also referred to various historical accounts in which men list being part of the proceedings at Carthage Jail as one of their life's greatest achievements.
Seeing the killers of Mormonism's founder doesn't take away from Marsh's testimony of the church, and she says it shouldn't bother other Mormons, either.
"Some people are uncomfortable with the idea that the mob members prospered. I know that the notion that an unseen hand dispersing justice to the wicked is very comforting," Marsh said.
"However, it quite simply isn't true. The wicked often prosper in this life. As many of us believe, though, we all will have to account for our actions, if not in this life, in the next. The most important fact remains, regardless of what happened to the Carthage mob: Joseph and Hyrum Smith were martyrs for God, and Joseph did more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world than any other man that lived in it."
I don’t think Joseph Smith shot his brother, but in the ‘fog of war’ anything is possible. If a cop unintentionally kills his partner in a gunfight, it doesn’t make him a copkiller
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By the same token, it doesnt make thw dead man a martyr either...
and it wasnt a “war”
It was just a couple of criminals in jail for breaking the law...
The criminals had booze and guns in jail with them...
“How do you feel about the 3,000 that were murdered on 9/11 ???
How do you feel about the 50 million aborted babies ???”
Pissed.
When people are shooting at you, and you shoot back and kill one or more, that isn’t murder. It’s generally seen as justifiable homicide in a court of law.
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That’s how I see it too..
If Joey Smith had not had guns in jail with him...
and if he not murdered those 2 men, he probably would not have got shot by those men shooting back to defend themseves...
The deaths of Joey Smith and Hyrum Smith was just that...
justifiable homicide
BTW Joey Smith was all liquered up...
They had been drinking ...
Joey Smith might have been shooting wildly all over the room...
Easy to shoot your own brother when you have a snoot full...
What exactly did Joseph Smith do for the salvation of men? Off the top of my head, I can think of several things:
1. Joseph Smith translated, by the gift and power of God, the ancient record known as the Book of Mormon.
2. Acting under the direction Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith organized the Church of Jesus Christ.
3. Joseph Smith received additional revelations and commandments from Jesus Christ pertaining to important topics such as the plan of salvation.
4. Joseph Smith received the power from God to seal on earth and in heaven.
I could go on, but those accomplishments are enough to establish the importance of Joseph Smith's work.
That’s how I see it too..
“If Joey Smith had not had guns in jail with him...
and if he not murdered those 2 men, he probably would not have got shot by those men shooting back to defend themseves...
The deaths of Joey Smith and Hyrum Smith was just that...
justifiable homicide”
You are really nuts.
Which was founded some 10 years after his death.
Liars, reprobates, flim flam men, con men, blasphemers.........are not martyrs for God. There are people shot in a gun battle just like any other thug.
I am not the poster of the thread but I will tell you those two thugs got what they deserved.
“I am not the poster of the thread but I will tell you those two thugs got what they deserved.”
Really? If they were truly criminals, then I should think that what they deserved was a trial by jury in a court of law based on the charges against them, not execution by a mob. You think killing by a mob is what they deserved, not a trial by jury?
Ah, wait for it......Smith died 1844 Republican Party years later.
Jumping the gun here yefrageturabrumuy.
Brilliant point, if it had not been a gun battle in a jail. Where did Smith get the guns? It is murder if you are in jail and shoot someone (or several and they die).
Do you even know what Salvation means?
Most people get a blank expression on their face if you refer to the Whigs. In this case “those who were not Democrats” sounds forced. But the principle is still sound, some political protection from the Democrat governor, at a very chaotic time.
It all depends on how it really went down. It just seems doubtful to me that Smith would have fired until he was fired upon. If I’m outnumbered like they were, I’m hoping law enforcement will intervene, so I’m not going to fire except as a last resort, i.e. shots are already being fired in my direction. Liquor could impair judgment of course, I’d be curious to know of any evidence that any of the jailed men were intoxicated.
Joe Smith was a con man, an arrestee,a fake profit (and false prophet); a chump extraordinairre.
He brought his own brother into harm's way and his brother Hyrum was killed.
Coward Joe tried to escape, was rightfully shot, and fell out a window.
Case closed.
(except Joe still needs to be charged for smugling a gun into a jail).
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 135:3
Strange...
This is not QUITE the way that It's been told before:
"I have more to boast about than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I."— Joseph Smith
I guess WE* had to RE-translate what JS said - similar to JS' RE-translation of the KJV Bible.
D&C 135:1 To seal the testimony of this book and the Book of Mormon, we announce the amartyrdom of Joseph Smith the Prophet, and Hyrum Smith the Patriarch.
SO... just WHO are the WE that wrote 135?
To seal the testimony of this book and the Book of Mormon, we announce the martyrdom of Joseph Smith the Prophet, and Hyrum Smith the Patriarch. They were shot in Carthage jail, on the 27th of June, 1844, about five o’clock p.m., by an armed mob—painted black—of from 150 to 200 persons. Hyrum was shot first and fell calmly, exclaiming: I am a dead man! Joseph leaped from the window, and was shot dead in the attempt, exclaiming: O Lord my God! They were both shot after they were dead, in a brutal manner, and both received four balls.
Marsh used a list of 89 men compiled by Sheriff Jacob Backenstos and a variety of other records to paint a picture of who these mobsters were.
barely?
I would think that 50% is a bit more than BARELY!!
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