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To: T Minus Four; Alamo-Girl; Quix; stfassisi
The RC Church is who declared it to be a credible apparition, so you go first.

That wasn't the question I asked you, T minus four. I didn't ask about what the Catholic Church thought about the events at Fatima, or what evidence they used to confirm them as genuine (unlike other "Marian apparitions" that have occurred since that time; i.e., early 20th century).

I was asking about your view of the matter, which I suspect has been informed on grounds other than direct evidence, logic, or reason. And from "outside" the Catholic Church and its historical traditions. [Probably meaning that you would hold any evidence produced by the Church as "suspect," prima facie, a priori.]

You wrote: "Mary’s dead, friend. And if she trusted in Jesus Christ alone for her salvation, she is in heaven with him now."

That's a pretty drear and dread statement, my friend, though it is not false. But where is the Holy Spirit to help such a person, who could say such a spiritually attenuated, deadly thing? Mary doesn't "reduce" to a "select" doctrine. And neither do we; for like Mary, we are flesh and blood — and Spirit.

210 posted on 03/15/2010 2:43:25 PM PDT by betty boop (Moral law is not rooted in factual laws of nature; they only tell us what happens, not what ought to)
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To: betty boop
I was asking about your view of the matter

I told you my view of the matter - based on ZERO evidence that the apparation was who it claimed to be, I reject it.

Probably meaning that you would hold any evidence produced by the Church as "suspect,"

How do you know? Bring me some.

That's a pretty drear and dread statement

Are you KIDDING? That's the most wonderful news that ever got proclaimed since the fall of man - if we trust in the Lord Jesus, we will be with Him in heaven for ever and ever! Hallelujiah! I do believe!

The rest of your post doesn't make sense to me.

213 posted on 03/15/2010 2:51:26 PM PDT by T Minus Four ("You do not have soul, you ARE a soul. You have a body." C.S. Lewis)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl
Hi betty boop,I have been somewhat following this thread.You and Alamo-Girl always make a subject more interesting.:)First I want to say the Blessed Mother did die.She did not resurrect.She was assumed into Heaven after her death.I have often wonder why St.Joseph's body has never been found.As far as Fatima the proof is in the prophecy.Also at the time of the Miracle of the Sun the ground was soaked.At the end the ground was dry and everyone's clothes were dry.I spoke with 3 eyewitness's and saw an interview with an eyewitness.The prophecy of Fatima are still unfolding and what Our Lady's basic request's are to pray for sinners and World peace.This request is for all souls not just Catholics.

(((((Hugs)))))

224 posted on 03/15/2010 3:12:39 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: betty boop

As I’ve noted before . . .

Most of my life, I more or less accepted the Vatican perspective on Fatima without much thought or examination beyond a cursory amount out of mild curiosity.

When the books came out on the deep investigation into the Fatima thing . . . and I read summaries of them . . .

I was FORCED to reconsider.

The evidence was well researched; well documented, logical, scholarly, plentiful, stark, clear-cut, unambiguous, consistent etc. with what I already knew from reading so many 100’s of reports of other UFO cases and phenomena.

I reluctantly had to revise my perspective and understanding of the event.


233 posted on 03/15/2010 3:28:50 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: betty boop
Betty:

In Lent, the adversary, being reminded that his time is short, is especially vicious. He clouds the minds of those who do not persistently take refuge in Jesus.

During such an assault appeals to reason will not meet with reasonable response.

Consider this: If someone says, "So and so is dead and in heaven," he is using not the language of the Faith, not the language of Christ and His Church, not even the language of the Bible. Those in heaven live with a life unknown to us on earth "for all live to Him." "Dead and in heaven," strictly speaking, is a meaningless and self-contradictory statement. Those who speak this way indicate that their hearts are still largely informed by the flesh.

In assailing the dogmata concerning our Blessed Mother, they denigrate the promises to the Faithful. Is her heart immaculate? So will be the hearts of the Saints in Heaven? Do they argue that she should be deprived of what is promised to all the faithful?

They complain at the teaching that she is queen. The Bible teaches that all the blessed are a royal (that is, kingly) priesthood. If they were to be taken at their word, on the last day she would be the only saint in heaven who was NOT king or queen.

But this is not the time of year to contend. This is the time to direct our minds and open our hearts to the light of Love which shines even in the darkness of betrayal and death.

319 posted on 03/16/2010 8:25:09 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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