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Is the pope a reactionary or a prophet?
Guardian ^ | March 23, 2010 | John Hooper

Posted on 03/23/2010 1:55:21 PM PDT by NYer

Under an all-but-full moon on the opening evening of the Second Vatican Council in 1962, tens of thousands of Romans poured into St Peter's Square in a torchlight procession. Called to the window of his study by the multitude, John XXIII, the man Italians called "the good pope" (a term that speaks volumes about their view of the previous 260), delivered one of the great speeches of an eloquent decade. Its emotional high point came when he told the crowd: "Returning home, you'll find the children. Give your children a caress and say: 'This is the caress of the pope.'"

Forty-three years later, on the night Benedict XVI was elected, a text message hurtled between mobiles as the crowds dispersed from that same square. "Returning home, you'll find the children", it read. "Give them a belt round the ear and say: 'That's a belt round the ear from the pope.'"

In the five years since, it has become clear that the daunting reputation the former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger brought into office as "God's rottweiler" was, in many respects, misleading. A man less likely to cuff a child would be hard to imagine – although, as the latest and biggest scandal to rock his papacy has revealed, his choirmaster brother was not above cuffing choristers.

On Saturday, Benedict tried to put the lid on that scandal with a letter to the Catholics of Ireland apologising for the "sinful and criminal" abuses of children whose disclosure has rocked the Irish church to its foundations and helped bring down a Dublin government. Using language rarely heard from popes, whose utterances on some issues are held by Catholics to be infallible, he said he was "truly sorry" for what had happened over a period of decades.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: b16; benedict; benedictxvi; bxvi; catholic; pedophilepriests; pedophiles; pope; priests; ratzinger; scandal

1 posted on 03/23/2010 1:55:21 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...

Benedict XVI is facing the biggest crisis of his reign as pope. Photograph: VINCENZO PINTO/AFP

The idea that today's Catholic church – hostile to abortion and contraception, antipathetic to homosexuality and dismissive of the idea of women priests – might be a bastion of enlightened values is one many Britons will find hard to accept. But then it is difficult to think of a society that provides Benedict with a greater challenge to his ideas than multicultural Britain, with its anti-discriminatory ethos and increasingly vociferous atheist minority. The growing popularity of writers such as Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and AC Grayling, who argue that religion is not just irrelevant but pernicious, is a key difference between the Britain that Benedict will find when he visits and the altogether more respectful one John Paul II experienced 28 years ago.

I hope they plan to outfit him with a bulletproof vest.

2 posted on 03/23/2010 1:56:54 PM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: NYer
Reactionary = Not Progressive.
That's a good thing.
3 posted on 03/23/2010 2:01:38 PM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: NYer

No kidding.


4 posted on 03/23/2010 2:02:28 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

I really like that photo, btw. Prayers for our beloved Pope Benedict.


5 posted on 03/23/2010 2:10:35 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer; monkapotamus

Is me or what does that of the Pope remind me of Michael Corlone in that dark room in Godfather 3


6 posted on 03/23/2010 2:14:22 PM PDT by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us ,resistance is futile")
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To: NYer
Pope John Paul II refused and Pope Benedict XVI refuses to admit that the true scandal is not that there were some individual sinful priests -- the true scandal is that there was the collaborative coverup and the reassignment of those priests by the bishops!

The evidence is growing that Bishop Ratzinger was one of those bishops.

Is the pope a reactionary or a prophet?

I still tend to think of him as a liberal, pro-Vatican-Two, Patristico-Rahnerean Phenomenologist.

7 posted on 03/23/2010 2:19:23 PM PDT by Dajjal (Obama is an Ericksonian NLP hypnotist.)
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To: Dajjal

I tend to think of him as a future saint.


8 posted on 03/23/2010 2:21:13 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

“Is the pope a reactionary or a prophet?”

Can’t one be both?


9 posted on 03/23/2010 2:29:26 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: NYer

Anyone that holds to an absolute standard is held in contempt.


10 posted on 03/23/2010 2:30:02 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Liberals are educated above their level of intelligence.. Thanks Sr. Angelica)
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To: NYer

I consider him a placeholder/theology professor who doesn’t compare to his great predecessor.


11 posted on 03/23/2010 2:30:43 PM PDT by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: NYer

The viciousness with which the media is going after him convinces me you Catholics picked the right person for the job. Although he sometimes drives me crazy (global warming, immigration), on the key stuff he’s a rock. “All who desie to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.”


12 posted on 03/23/2010 2:31:38 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: TASMANIANRED

So it seems.


13 posted on 03/23/2010 2:31:51 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: circlecity

Very astute. Thanks, cc.


14 posted on 03/23/2010 2:32:36 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

One of the problems of now is....The Catholic Church stands as she has always stood...many others have run towards liberalism, socialism and moral equivalency.

They point at the church and decry her absolute values, her holding to truth and say how she has moved to the right wing.

They have moved, not the Church.


15 posted on 03/23/2010 2:38:11 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Liberals are educated above their level of intelligence.. Thanks Sr. Angelica)
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To: TASMANIANRED

Well said!


16 posted on 03/23/2010 2:45:21 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: TASMANIANRED; trisham
Anyone that holds to an absolute standard is held in contempt.

Bingo!

The Catholic Church is an easy target because it is the only religious body with a central authority figure. Non-Catholic christian denominations lack any centralized authority, as does Judaism and Islam. They are broken down into sects.

There is a good reason why the pope wears red shoes.

17 posted on 03/23/2010 2:56:28 PM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: NYer

I love the red shoes!


18 posted on 03/23/2010 2:59:06 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: SevenofNine

We’re probably supposed to think he looks sinister, but I think he looks like he needs a hug, a glass of wine, and a big Cuban dinner!


19 posted on 03/23/2010 3:36:58 PM PDT by Tax-chick (It's a jungle out there, kiddies. Have a very fruitful day.)
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To: NYer
"Returning home, you'll find the children ...

Not anymore. Italy's birthrate is in the running for lowest-low in dying Europe.

20 posted on 03/23/2010 3:38:28 PM PDT by Tax-chick (It's a jungle out there, kiddies. Have a very fruitful day.)
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To: Tax-chick

:) He’s a sweetheart!


21 posted on 03/23/2010 3:51:03 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

The grandfather we all wish we had.


22 posted on 03/23/2010 3:52:01 PM PDT by Tax-chick (It's a jungle out there, kiddies. Have a very fruitful day.)
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To: Tax-chick

Absolutely. :)


23 posted on 03/23/2010 3:52:45 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Tax-chick; trisham

But then he wouldn’t be Pope :-)


24 posted on 03/23/2010 4:17:49 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (IN A SMALL TENT WE JUST STAND CLOSER! * IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

Not in this century ;-).


25 posted on 03/23/2010 4:18:41 PM PDT by Tax-chick (It's a jungle out there, kiddies. Have a very fruitful day.)
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To: Tax-chick

Yeah you are right

Be need glass of wine and Cuban cigar


26 posted on 03/23/2010 4:20:34 PM PDT by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us ,resistance is futile")
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To: SevenofNine

Good idea about the cigar! I was thinking pork roast, black beans, fried plantains ...


27 posted on 03/23/2010 4:21:51 PM PDT by Tax-chick (It's a jungle out there, kiddies. Have a very fruitful day.)
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To: Tax-chick

I’d love to hang out with the guy for a week. I’ve read his books, probably the smartest guy on the planet.


28 posted on 03/23/2010 4:28:13 PM PDT by ALPAPilot
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To: NYer

How about being both a reactionary and a prophet?


29 posted on 03/23/2010 4:57:14 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

He is also an excellent teacher. I really believe that Pope Benedict XVI will one day be a doctor of the Catholic Church.


30 posted on 03/23/2010 4:57:57 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: TASMANIANRED

You speak the truth. And the modern world hates the Catholic Church because of the staunch and unmoving views she holds!


31 posted on 03/23/2010 4:59:52 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Tax-chick

I thought the same things. But looks can be deceiving.


32 posted on 03/23/2010 5:00:53 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ALPAPilot

He outdoes Obortion O in his daily and sometimes more than daily speeches. And I bet he doesn’t work from a teleprompter either! LOL!

He is so knowledgeable.


33 posted on 03/23/2010 5:03:18 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Dajjal

It is very important that you take with full faith the evidence presented by the secular media since we can always depend on its objectivity.


34 posted on 03/23/2010 5:21:23 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: NYer

Pray the Rosary for Peace!

Pray for the Pope to Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

http://fatimaondemand.org/en/index.php/special-productions/heavens-key-to-peace


35 posted on 03/23/2010 7:17:53 PM PDT by ADSUM (Democracy works when citizens get involved and keep government honest.)
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To: circlecity

You nailed it. :)


36 posted on 03/23/2010 7:30:42 PM PDT by bronxville
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To: ALPAPilot

Agree. He has to be very close to Jesus to produce such beautiful words.


37 posted on 03/23/2010 7:32:19 PM PDT by bronxville
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To: NYer

Satan is definitely on the prowl.


38 posted on 03/23/2010 8:43:43 PM PDT by bboop (We don't need no stinkin' VAT)
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