"Now there is a loss of trust in the church..."

Beliefnet ^ | March 23, 2010 | Deacon Greg Kandra

[NYer]

The New York Times this morning printed an essay from German author Peter Schneider, who raised some pointed questions about the Church in the pope's homeland:

Pope Benedict should also recognize how precarious the Catholic Church is in Germany. Like Americans, Germans have already had to cope with a general loss of trust in public institutions. First there were the bankers, with their insane bets and bonuses. Then the politicians, who couldn't stop the bankers. Now there is a loss of trust in the church.

But unlike in America, religion in Germany is already weak. In the former Communist east, only 2 percent of the population go to church on Sunday; in the western states, the number is 8 percent. Some dwindling congregations have had to sell their church buildings.

So far the church is benefiting from the breadth of sexual abuse scandals. Victims are also coming forward from Protestant institutions, from secular boarding schools and elite academies, from children's homes. Many critics argue that any closed institution where male educators have charge of male children runs the risk of sexual abuse.

Conservative Catholic bishops go further, saying that the sexual abuse committed by their priests is a general social problem, traceable not to the church but to the sexualization of society, to the zeitgeist, to the sins of the 1968 generation. The truth, they suggest, was that the evil had struck in all sectors of society. Others have warned of the dangers of a witch hunt, and some have even highlighted a new form of political correctness.

But the figures available so far show that the problem is especially severe in the Catholic Church. Alois Glück, president of the Central Committee of German Catholics, has urged consideration of the "church-specific conditions that favor sexual abuse," which many have taken as a call for the church to reconsider the matter of its priests' celibacy.

This is yet another difference between the Irish and American scandals and our own. Ireland and America are deeply religious places; if priestly celibacy is not as well understood there as it once was, it is nevertheless respected.

Germany is not only a secular country, but a sexually liberated one as well. Many Germans find the Vatican's demand of priestly celibacy completely alien, and we recognize it as a historical, rather than holy, tradition, going back to a decree by Pope Benedict VIII in 1022. Indeed, in a poll conducted last week, 87 percent of Germans said that celibacy is no longer appropriate.

It's not hard, then, for us to draw the conclusion -- fair or not -- that the church's problems are rooted in celibacy. Much more so than in the United States, the German debate is about the fundamental structure of the Catholic church: Must a person be chaste to exercise the office of a priest? Does this condition not attract sexually disturbed and pedophiliac men, who count on cover and understanding in the bosom of the church?

How Benedict handles the issue in the coming weeks will determine not only how well the German church endures, but whether it can survive in its current form at all. None of the victims has yet sought reparations, but sooner or later, the church will have to offer compensation. The American church has paid $2 billion to abuse victims since 1992; can the German church afford the same?

Read the whole thing right here.

[TradicalRC]

I think the argument is that, by limiting the priesthood to men who will abstain from sex with women,

Actually, it is to abstain from sex with anyone. If celibacy is not for you, do not join the club. Christ tells us not only to turn from sinful acts, but also sinful thoughts.

I understand that you were merely clarifying the plausibility of an argument, however if one is serious about truth, one ought to look beyond surface plausibility.

[boynamedsue]

No masturbation is a selfish act and is therefor sinful. The point of celibacy is not just to have priests refrain from intercourse, but sexual release in general, given it distracts the priest from god.

[hellbender]

I was somewhat surprised to learn that semen is not produced at a constant rate. Secretion is enhanced by desire, fantasies, etc. That means that males who do not engage in lustful fantasies have less need to release the stuff. It is perfectly possible to live without sex. However, I do think that there is no scriptural basis for celibate clergy.

[James C. Bennett]

Not semen, but sperm cells.

It’s approximately 1,500 sperm cells produced every second, in a healthy male.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100318-men-sperm-1500-stem-cells-second-male-birth-control/

Those cells can’t remain in the epididymis, for too long. The risks include elevated chances of testicular cancer.

[Salvation]

Not only true in Germany but all over the world.

[Salvation]

Glad you rolled your eyes, because the larger number of sexual molestetors are teachers and ministers from other denominations.

Sexual Abuse of Children by Protestant Ministers

Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse Cases a Year

Abuse by Protestant Ministers of Every Denomination

Child Sexual Molestation by Various Protestant Clergy

Baptist Predators website

"Yeshiva" of Brooklyn also Guilty of Child Abuse

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Teacher's Advocacy of Pedophilia Raises Legal Questions

Teachers and Pedophilia - In YOUR Backyard

Washington Post -- D.C. school officials reported 220 abuse allegations against teachers

Sex Abuse by Teachers Said Worse Than Catholic Church

WHEN BOYS ARE MOLESTED BY TEACHERS AND OTHERS IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY

[Just mythoughts]

Glad you rolled your eyes, because the larger number of sexual molestetors are teachers and ministers from other denominations.

NOT helping the case given I read thread after thread and post after post that there is only ONE church.... and the oldest church, the most member-ed church... This is not equalizing outcomes.

[hellbender]

Sperm cells are a tiny fraction of semen. Sperm cells are readily reabsorbed by the body. It is not the buildup of sperm which creates sexual desire, but that of seminal fluid from the seminal vesicles and prostate, which is strongly influenced by stimulation, either physical or mental. No one ever died from sexual abstinence.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“One question I have: Are priests allowed or encouraged to masturbate?’

No. No one is. Masturbation is sinful. Protestants generally allow it much like they allow contraception and other sinful sexual practices. Still, some Protestants believe the truth instead: http://www.religioustolerance.org/masturba6.htm

[James C. Bennett]

I am not sure about that. Do you have a link?

I was aware nocturnal emissions are primarily the body’s mean’s of emptying the epididymis (no semen stored here).

Retained sperm increases testicular cancer risks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

does the Catholic church have any priests that have had their testicles removed to help further curb desire?

Not an expert, but I think eunuchs can't be priests.

[hellbender]

i do know that sperm cells are a tiny fraction of semen, that it is the buildup of the other constituents which increases desire for release, and that those other constituents are secreted in response to sexual desire or fantasies, which may be unconscious (e.g. dreams). I think most males are intuitively aware of this; ie. thinking about sex will increase secretion and therefore desire. I have read links on this, but don’t know of them offhand.

[SuziQ]

I guess the author wasn’t paying attention when Pope Benedict XVI was first elevated. He said that he wanted to re-evangelize Europe, because the Church had become unimportant to Catholics on the continent.

[bronxville]

The NYSlimes should also be looking into the secular teachers. The DoE states the rate is beyond 10% but they won’t - of course as they get funded by the foundations who want us gone.

[Campion]

The risks include elevated chances of testicular cancer.

Reference?

Somebody on a message board like this once claimed that lack of sexual release in Catholic priests caused prostate cancer. I looked up the stats and found that Catholic priests had a slightly (very slightly) lower risk of prostate cancer than the general male population.

[Campion]

Are priests allowed or encouraged to masturbate?

No sexual activity outside of licit marital intercourse open to the transmission of life is permitted by the moral law, therefore: no.

And, if not, does the Catholic church have any priests that have had their testicles removed to help further curb desire?

That would be the sin of mutilation, which is also objectively gravely evil.

[James C. Bennett]

Reference?

Already posted. See #30.

[MrRobertPlant2009]

The priests I’ve met in recent years don’t strike me as straight or gay but just terribly confused. And (this is just me talking) it seems like people who are sexually confused might find some comfort in a rule that makes the decision for them.

It seems like when I was a kid, all the priests were big Irish men who looked like longshoremen. Now, unless they come from overseas, they are all small and soft.

[RobbyS]

The explanation begins with the fact that so few Catholics attend Church, not with priestly celibacy. Germany is a nation of non-Christians or indifferent Christians. It is “sexually liberated,” meaning that it is pagan. Letting priests marry will solve nothing. Anglican priests marry, yet England is more pagan every year.

[RobbyS]

Something in what you say. Not big necessarily, but physically tough. I had a priest who hung out a lot at the K of C hall, and he like to mow the lawn—to pay for his beer her said. He would have his shirt off in the Texas sun and he looked like a welterweight boxer, complete with broken nose. Said he got it as a kid fighting on the street.