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To: MarkBsnr; Alamo-Girl; Quix; stfassisi; metmom; hosepipe; Forest Keeper; P-Marlowe
Yes. Othewise, the Scriptures would indicate that only some of the angels had free will and the rest did not

But I don't believe that! They all do. Just like all men do.

My interest goes to the problem of the faithfulness of the angels who stood with God. That is, after the 1/3 of them "selected themselves out" of God's moral order under the example/leadership of Satan.

What I wonder about is this: Once an angel's (or a human person's) heart has turned itself to God's Light, and has decided to abide in that Light, what possible "incentive" could turn one — angel or human — away from that decision, from that Light?

I apologize for the egregious miscommunication we seem to be having, MarkBsnr.

101 posted on 04/06/2010 3:16:15 PM PDT by betty boop (The personal is not the public's business. See: the Ninth Amendment.)
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To: betty boop
What I wonder about is this: Once an angel's (or a human person's) heart has turned itself to God's Light, and has decided to abide in that Light, what possible "incentive" could turn one — angel or human — away from that decision, from that Light?

Milton has satan saying that it is better to rule in hell than serve in Heaven. I believe that the attraction is to the whims of the moment. The immediate gratification. The infantile-centeredness that demands that all else become subordinate to the ego.

108 posted on 04/06/2010 4:57:37 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: betty boop; MarkBsnr; Quix; stfassisi; metmom; hosepipe; Forest Keeper; P-Marlowe; kosta50
Thank you so very much for all of your wonderful insights, dearest sister in Christ!

I apologize for being late to a thread (again) - and I still have company, so this will sadly be a hit-and-run.

What I wonder about is this: Once an angel's (or a human person's) heart has turned itself to God's Light, and has decided to abide in that Light, what possible "incentive" could turn one — angel or human — away from that decision, from that Light?

Most importantly, God never leaves us. He does not forsake us. We have His blessed assurance.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. – Romans 8:38-39

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. – John 5:24

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep [you] from evil. – 2 Th 3:3

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. - I John 1:5-7

And a Christian will not follow a stranger or be enslaved by evil.

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. – John 10:3-5

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. - James 4:7

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep [you] from evil. – 2 Th 3:3

So if God won't reject us and a Christian cannot be fooled by a stranger or evil - then the only way a Christian (or angel) could turn his back on God is willfully, i.e. self-will or pride.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? – Hebrews 10:26-29

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. - Genesis 6:1-2

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. - Jude 1:6

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; - 2 Peter 2:4

The last three passages above refer to the misconduct of the angels leading to the Noah flood.

For those interested, the pseudepigraphal book of Enoch goes into the story in great detail. In a nutshell, the angels were assigned to earth to watch after the banished Adamic men. Instead, they acted willfully having sex with human women and producing bloodthirsty giants. And more, they taught man all kinds of forbidden knowledge such as war and weapons.

The angels were seized and chained in darkness until the judgment and God took Enoch to be their advocate. Which he did, but their fate was sealed. The angels' plea was for their offspring. And, as I recall, the bodies of their offspring were destroyed by the flood but their spirits continued on the earth as the "demons."

And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him. - Mark 1:34

And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. - Mark 8:29-31

At any rate, whether one finds insight in the Book of Enoch or not, many if not most scholars agree the reference in Jude and 2 Peter is to the book. So we can assume that some if not most of the early Christians were familiar with these angels chained in darkness until the judgment.

The bottom line, as always it seems, is willfulness - pride.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. - Genesis 3:4-5

God's Name is I AM.

151 posted on 04/06/2010 10:49:31 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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