Posted on 04/08/2010 11:36:45 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
Don’t take it too hard, JA; there’s always going to be weak people in a group of any significant number, and often these people will turn to hatred because it’s the easy way. Belittling others to make themselves feel good is a standard M.O. People like to feel important by talking Salvation with a big “s” - but anyone from the outside can see there’s little concern for any one beyond what they want to perceive in the mirror. Take heart in knowing that as vocal as these kind of people need to be (for if they weren’t constantly deriding others they’d lose their sense of superiority), they are by far in the minority.
We “apologists” are dealing with reality - we know a witch hunt when we see one.
I have just scrolled through your postings and your anti Catholic obsession and hubris in your Protestant faith is quite chilling.
As a non Catholic, I did learn from you though. I was wrong in thinking agendas like yours went out with the Puritans and that dialog with you is pointless.
Some on this site do, however, preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who is our only Savior, redeemer, mediator, intercessor, justifier and salvation.
Part of the Christian's obligation in preaching the Gospel is to preach it in truth. Therefore Christians admonish Roman Catholics who kneel and pray to anyone other than the Triune God because the word of God rebukes all such activity as idolatry.
He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire: And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god. They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree? He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?" -- Isaiah 44:15-20"Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
Yes, there is.
The preaching of the Gospel has been called worse. No surprise.
"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36
We've seen countless examples for years that some Roman Catholic apologists believe all preaching of the Gospel is tantamount to "belittling others."
Thank God for the rules of the FR Religion Forum. Or there would only be one "religion" and one practice preached and all else would be seen as "belittling others."
If there are countless examples, give one, please.
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:14-15
Sweet post - nicely played, and the (non-existent) response is hilarious.
Thank God for the rules of the FR Religion Forum. Or there would only be one "religion" and one practice preached and all else would be seen as "belittling others."
There is one God and His one Catholic Church, but many religions, of which the OPC is one. I'd say that those who follow all these arcane practices of men which have multiplied since the Reformation are not belittling, but rather, belittled themselves. There are many on here who claim to preach the Gospel, but on closer observation, they preach not the Gospel, but snippets of, say, Paul and Isaiah. Jesus Created His Church and preached His Gospel to the fledgling Church and to the masses. We preach the Gospel of Jesus, which gives many Reformed and others here apoplexy. The Gospel of Christ is that preached by Christ, not by any Tom, Dick or Calvin. Repent from the ruins of the Reformation and the rubble of the Restoration.
Sadly, some have a real problem with that. Instead they pray to statues of dead people and call their pastors "another Christ" and believe in a superstitious alchemy regarding the Lord's Supper and even go so far as to confer the title of "co-redeemer" on a simple Jewish girl.
Christianity is so much easier than the papacy tries to make it. Thank God we have been given ears to hear only Him and not Rome.
"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36
I keep searching for that Bible verses which say, “Verily verily I say unto you, he that asks his brother to pray for him is going into the lake of fire. He that asks his brother in heaven to pray for him is going into the lake of fire. And he who asks my mother to pray for him is going in twice! Thou shalt not address my mother, living on earth or in heaven. She is nothing but an unlettered dumb little vessel who I rebuked constantly.”
Can you tell me where it is?
don’t overburden her - she’s still busy looking for just one of “countless” examples of Christians believing preaching the Gospel belittles others
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me." -- Exodus 7:4-5" Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
I realize the RCC does not hold the Scriptures in much esteem so perhaps it's easy for that institution to ignore God's instructions. When God through Moses gave the people His commandments there was a lot of thunder and lightning (And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. - Ex. 7:20) so maybe Rome needs some special effects to really understand what's expected of them. Because they're clearly not following God's word.
Let me clean up the sentence for you: The most merciful Christ created His Church and the Holy Spirit commissioned it and guides it to this day, as promised in Scripture. You're welcome.
Members of that flock are found in a variety of denominations
They are found in the Church. Men who reject the Church reject the God Who Created it.
where they follow the word of God
An example of the negative is the OPC. The Gospels are dusty and unread and unused. Isaiah is quoted more than Christ. Not Christian, I'm afraid, my good Dr. E.
which tells them to pray to the Triune God alone
The OPC cannot claim to follow the Christian Creeds. What knowledge do they have of the Triune God of Christendom? Interpreting Scripture is a matter for the Church, not a splinter church.
to worship Christ in gratitude for His finished work on the cross
Dr. E. I've been to a handful of Presbyterian services and it is not worship. It is lecturing and orating and posturing but it is not worship in the same manner as a Christian Mass. We kneel before God. We publically ask for His Forgiveness. We pray for His Mercy. We read from all of the Bible. We then kneel and pray to Him in worship in order to prepare for Communion with Him. We follow His commands to eat His Body and drink His Blood. We are Christian as Christians were before us all the way back to Christ.
and to look to the Scriptures as their only rule of faith and practice. Instead they pray to statues of dead people and call their pastors "another Christ" and believe in a superstitious alchemy regarding the Lord's Supper
Just as many Protestant denominations believe that their clergy has the ordained ability to ask the blessings and the grace of the Holy Spirit to come down for us, such as baptisms and weddings and marriages, we, from the catacombs in ancient Christendom, ordained those who followed Peter and Paul and were given the ability from God. The accusation is 'another Christ'. The reality is that the man is actually rendered unimportant. The pre Vatican II and the Orthodox orientation, unlike the entertainer of the Protestant service, is with the people, with all praying and looking up to God.
and even go so far as to confer the title of "co-redeemer" on a simple Jewish girl.
Since Mary is the Mother of God, and the Jewish model of Queen Mother is well documented in both Scripture and non Scripture, the Church, also from the beginning (remember that St. Luke wrote the first known icon - it was of Mary), considered Mary to be something more than a simple Jewish girl.
Christianity is so much easier than the papacy tries to make it.
If that were true, then why are the Anglicans, the ELCA, the Methodists, the Presbyterians, and all of the mainline denominations (with the possible exception of the LCMS) and most of the non denominationals swirling down the doctrinal toilet and fragmenting rather noisily as they do so?
Thank God we have been given ears to hear only Him and not Rome.
Who is we?
Mark 6: 35 10 While he was still speaking, people from the synagogue official's house arrived and said, "Your daughter has died; why trouble the teacher any longer?" 36 Disregarding the message that was reported, Jesus said to the synagogue official, "Do not be afraid; just have faith." 37 He did not allow anyone to accompany him inside except Peter, James, and John, the brother of James. 38 When they arrived at the house of the synagogue official, he caught sight of a commotion, people weeping and wailing loudly. 39 11 So he went in and said to them, "Why this commotion and weeping? The child is not dead but asleep." 40 And they ridiculed him. Then he put them all out. He took along the child's father and mother and those who were with him and entered the room where the child was. 41 12 He took the child by the hand and said to her, "Talitha koum," which means, "Little girl, I say to you, arise!" 42 The girl, a child of twelve, arose immediately and walked around. (At that) they were utterly astounded. 43 He gave strict orders that no one should know this and said that she should be given something to eat.
Remember that this does not mean what you imply that it means. The little girl did not have the faith. It was the father. If you would be true to the application to your post, you might say: Be not afraid, only have your dad believe, leaving you off the hook entirely. This is the problem with posting snippets, as the Reformed normally do. It is out of context and often used as proof for something that it really doesn't mean.
“this artistic work does not in the least bit ‘prompt thought or contemplation’ for me”
The fault there lies not with the art, but with your education.
“So it does not serve purpose for me and those who might see it as I do...it is artistic work...nothing more.”
Ummm...art, religious or not, is supposed to prompt thought and contemplation, to strike a chord in a person’s soul.
Is it just religious art that leaves you cold, or all art?
“I thought I made it clear”
You did, and what you made clear was incorrect and insulting.
“I believe there is a sense of need”
Nope. It’s not need. It may be a desire to experience something good, but it is not required.
“As for the best disposition to pray...well the Lord and I have that worked out quite nicely”
Well, if your faith is never tested, if you never have a dry spell, then you are alone among all Christians.
“But I do think it can be an issue for those seen as kneeling before these objects of art...as if they are more than that....or showing some sort of affectionate behavior toward them, which has also been observed.”
The key words there are “seen as.” If a person sees it that way, that person is just plain wrong, plain and simple. It is not for Catholics to adjust; it is for such a person to do whatever is necessary to see it correctly.
“it is simply a choice I make for those quiet moments.”
Religious art is a choice I make for those quiet hours.
As God wills.
I post Scripture and you call it hatred. The only thing that's "obvious" is that Roman Catholic apologists cannot mount a reasonable, Scriptural defense of their faith.
“If there are countless examples, give one, please.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:judithanne/index?tab=comments;brevity=full;options=no-change
I did say thank you for the conversation...and I did say we obviously see from different perspectives....and I did explain my opinion and observations....as have you.
What “strikes chords of the soul” .....”prompts thought and contemplation”.... differs from one individual to another...and rightfully so. God generously gives us variety...in taste and style, as well as the ability to appreciate. But then...... He gave us choice.
Renassaunce art does not move me in the least nor do I choose it as a form of art I appreciate.... and that was the artistic work discussed. That does not mean one cannot appreciate the artists ability as interesting....but that is where it stops for me.
As for dry spells...of course this is where we walk entirely by faith alone often with a sense of aloness. No feelings, or might be in your case artistic moving of the soul, and the scriptures may seem as if they flatlined.
It is then trusting... even when everything might evidence otherwise...it is when we learn the depth of knowing.....’Him’....(As is written, “I KNOW who... I have believed in and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I’ve commited unto Him against that day”.)
He stretches us then... because... He has sat the bar of faith higher...but no higher than that which we cannot reach.
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