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Sex abuse lawsuit names San Antonio archdiocese
Associated Press ^ | 4-8-10 | Michelle Roberts

Posted on 04/08/2010 11:36:45 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg

A West Texas teen filed a lawsuit Thursday against the Archdiocese of San Antonio and Archbishop Jose Gomez alleging repeated sexual assaults by a parish priest, who he says the church's leadership should have known was abusive.

The allegations came just days after Gomez was named to a high-profile post leading the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, where he is scheduled to be formally introduced to parishioners in May.

The lawsuit accuses the Rev. John M. Fiala of repeatedly sexually assaulting the teen, including twice forcing him to have sex at gunpoint when Fiala was the pastor at Sacred Heart of Mary Parish in the remote community of Rocksprings. The lawsuit alleges the incidents occurred in 2007 and 2008, during Gomez's tenure overseeing a swath of south and west Texas.

(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: freformed; homosexualagenda; witchhunt
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1 posted on 04/08/2010 11:36:45 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
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To: Quix; 1000 silverlings; the_conscience; Dutchboy88; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; xzins; ...
This scandal is pervasive and goes to the heart of a priesthood made up of men who are considered to be an "alter Christus" -- "another Christ."

Mahoney Part Deux.

2 posted on 04/08/2010 11:41:36 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
It certainly seems this venom in the Priesthood needs to be taken out and instead just grows more deeply embedded. I do not understand how this continues to be an issue...if they are gay priests they need to be outed..period. Perhaps there are so many of them they are equally as many who are shoving it under the mat to hold their own positions because they too practice homosexuality? This is the conclusion I have drawn as this poison grips those within the catholic church. It is not uncommon homosexuality leads to child sexual abuse. Even some in the Priesthood are acknowledging it's a grave problem that isn't being resolved.

Fifteen years ago I lived in a community where a young man in his teens was the "boy" for the Priest in their church. I asked the individual who shared this with me why if it was general knowlege didn't the people speak up on the boys behalf. She said though it was understood nobody dared to cause an issue for the church since the Priest was well know and liked. So they simply turn their heads, as she said. Thus making them as quilty as the Priest for doing that.

3 posted on 04/09/2010 12:08:27 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww
Yes, obviously they feel "entitled" since they are considered to be "another Christ."

It's amazing what people will actually believe and put up with. The disconnect is staggering.

4 posted on 04/09/2010 12:20:50 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

I do realize the catholic teachings and leadership believes the Priests to be “another Christ”...but I am not so sure catholics in general believe this to be true. Comman sense alone knows there is but one Christ. Perhaps they just see the Priest as representing Christ not necessarily “another” Christ. We are called to follow Him and strive to be as He is with the help of the Holy Spirit.

However one looks at it sin is sin be it Priest or the lowest of the low....it remains sin against God...therefore if they see themselves as actually “another Christ” by their action with children they become “anti-Christ”...opposing Christ.


5 posted on 04/09/2010 12:42:45 AM PDT by caww
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
It's amazing what people will actually believe and put up with. The disconnect is staggering.

For all religions and cults the disconnect from reality is mandatory.

8 hours ago.

ST. JOHN'S, N.L. — A former Catholic bishop who is already facing child pornography charges is now accused in a civil lawsuit of sexual abuse.

In a statement of claim filed in the Supreme Court of Newfoundland and Labrador, Todd Boland alleged former Bishop Raymond Lahey fondled him over his clothes, and that the abuse happened on numerous occasions over several years. The abuse is alleged to have happened in the mid 1980s when Boland was a resident at the infamous Mount Cashel orphanage.

The statement of claim is brought against the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of St. John's.

Boland's lawyer, Greg Stack, said the child pornography charges laid earlier this year may have helped spur Boland to come forward

Read more:

Bishop Raymond Lahey

6 posted on 04/09/2010 1:33:41 AM PDT by Cardhu
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To: caww

Why do do you say this when the Church has done more to address the issue than other institutions? In any case, a charge is not necessary guilt. Or have you thrown the presumption of innocence out the window? If we are just sharing prejudices, let me give you mine: this is lawyers trolling for dollars. Unable to shake down the medical industry in Texas, they go after the Church.


7 posted on 04/09/2010 2:06:43 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Cardhu

The salient term here is “former.”


8 posted on 04/09/2010 2:07:47 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: RobbyS

Yes “former,” after the child pornography charges. It is difficult even for the Catholic church to cover up after criminal charges like that.

There are Bishops in Germany that are encouraging anyone with a complaint go to the civil authorities. Implying that they should not trust the church authorities.

The church had set up a hotline for sexual complaints and received 2,900 calls within two and half days. Now that does not mean 2,900 complaints of individual priests, as some were call backs and others were about the same priest, and no doubt quite a few were venting.


9 posted on 04/09/2010 2:27:32 AM PDT by Cardhu
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To: Cardhu

EVEN the Catholic Church? The great majority of the charges made are very hold and brought against the local butcher would be thrown out of court. Statutes of limitations are there for a reason, which is the respect for the principle that in order to protect the innocent, the guilty must sometimes go free. BTW, your presumption that the civil authorities are so eager to prosecute child molesters flies in face of the evidence. It is as prevalent as prostitution in our society, as sodomy among sheepherders, as adultery among the married but the dockets are not bursting with cases like this. On the contrary, the police would be overwhelmed if they had actually to enforce the public morals. Thy cannot even get habitual drunks off the roads.


10 posted on 04/09/2010 2:36:50 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; caww; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; ...
SIGH.

There but for the Grace OF GOD, go any mortal bags of flesh.

Christ and Paul both demonstrated Servant-Hearted Leadership. God and Man leaders and the demonstrable bulk of the New Testament demonstrations in Scripture were servant leaders.

Not a single one of them were "into" hierarchical structures and pontifications. Christ and Paul both DEMONSTRATED THE POWER OF GOD as their authority.

THE POWER OF GOD.

Not a form of RELIGION DENYING THE POWER THEREOF--BUT THE DEMONSTRATED POWER OF GOD.

Paul mentioned his authority coming from direct dialogue and comissioning with Christ on the Damascas road and perhaps by allusion to the years in the wilderness. Yet he persistently appealed more to THE POWER OF GOD backing up his words--not to some comissioning document with umpteen wax seals and lots of gold leaf on it. It was NOT a structure nor a hierarchy nor an affiliation with the Jerusalem Disciples nor even his comissioning by Christ directly that Paul asserted and appealed to most frequently as evidence of his legitimacy of his Apostleship.

!NO!

It was persistently:

1. THE POWER OF THE RESURRECTED JESUS THE CHRIST.
2. THE POWER OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS.
3. THE POWER OF THE NAME OF JESUS.
4. THE POWER OF HOLY SPIRIT DEMONSTRATED IN HIS LIFE AND MINISTRY.
5. THEIR ANOINTING BREAKS THE YOKE.

Such brought healing, deliverance, wholeness, divided the bone from the marrow; error from truth; brought back to life sleepy-heads fallen out of windows and turned the rebellious over to satan for discipline.

NOT some bureaucratic political power-mongering clique of self-serving ecclesiastical elites deciding theology and truth on the basis of what was best for them as individuals and for their exclusive clique in Rome.

Henry Wright is correct. All sexual acting out is a desperate longing and search for a father's love that wasn't sufficiently available in sufficiently convincing quantities and qualities to fill the young child's empty love-buckets the first years of life--essentially an ATTACHMENT DISORDER set of problems--whether it be heterosexual promiscuity, homosexual acting out, whatever.

Only the Active Anointing of the Blood of Jesus, The Cross, Holy Spirit can bring deliverance, cleanse and begin to fill such holes of spirit, mind, body, soul.

1. Hierarchy will NOT do it.
2. Structure will NOT do it.
3. Fossilized and lichen encrusted edifices will NOT do it.
4. Prissy, hypocritical, phoney, jury-rigged pseudo-'authority' will NOT do it.
5. Ritual will NOT do it.
6. Formulas--even Biblical formulas persistently, (at some point) will NOT reliably do it.
7. Organizational fancy footwork will NOT do it.
8. Systemic cover-ups & rationalizations will certainly NOT do it.

A relatively small percentage of Roman Catholic et al's 'famous' 'leaders' have demonstrated similar authentic servant leadership, imho.

INSTEAD, it's been SAVE, PROTECT, WHITE-WASH THE INSTITUTION AT ALL COSTS, FIRST, LAST AND ALWAYS. NOT GOD. NOT CONFESSION AND REPENTANCE AND WHAT COULD BE DONE TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT--NO--THE INSTITUTION ABOVE ALL.

Such is the nature of man, the tendencies of the flesh alone or in groups. No individual or group is entirely free of such in this mortal sphere.

And the more prissy, lofty and self-aggrandizing the individuals and groups, the worse the rot that sets in. And soon, the rot becomes wrapped in velvet and gold lame and gold leaf and very pontifical in tone and ceremony. And no one dares to tarnish the images, the pomp and circumstance; the prancing princes of RELIGIOUS power . . .

1. regardless of the hearts.
2. regardless of the attitudes.
3. regardless of the actions, activities.
4. regardless of the hypocrisies.
5. regardless of the smell.
6. regardless of the idolatries and blasphemies.
7. regardless of the horrors in the name of Gilded Gawd Stand-ins.

Yes, the Roman Catholic et al's edifice is blackened yet again by serious sins and levels of cover-up. And given the purported pontifications of how pristine, righteous, authoritative and exclusively 'Godly' said RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION holds itself out to be--the horrors are manifestly multiplied in their realities and implications.

However, Protties will be well advised to be cautious about judgmental haughty self-righteous attitudes.

The purifying fires of Holy Spirit are just getting warmed up. They have hardly begun to burn fiercely brightly.

HOWEVER, THEY WILL.

AND NO Christian institution, organization or congregation will be left unscathed, will be left with anything but faces to the floor before God.

The Roman Catholic et al edifice currently is having yet another opportunity to COME CLEAN BEFORE GOD AND MAN and to purge and ask God to purge and help purge it of all sexual and other idolatries. It will rise to the occasion or it won't. So far, it looks like a very mixed bag.

So far, it looks like it's only interested in wrapping itself in its usual robes of claimed exclusivist self-righteousness, rationalizing at least as much as confessing and repenting and pretending that it can pretty much mostly go on with business as usual.

I think God has a different opinion.

And a different set of expectations of the leadership.

I don't believe the edifice will get the message very thoroughly nor change very thoroughly.

Oh, sure, candidates will be screened much better. That's been in place for a while and PRAISE GOD for that. And other self-policing structures and policies are better and better in place and functioning.

However the root attitudes do not seem to have greatly changed nor do they seem about to.

The exclusivist self-righteousness remains a hallmark of the edifice. The rampant idolatries so !!!!TRADITIONAL!!!! about THE INSITUTION ABOVE ALL AND AT ALL COSTS mentality continues to reign supreme.

God is NOT fooled.

God is NOT amused.

There may be pockets, congregations, retreat centers, personal ministries within the edifice who/which will put God and God's priorities and ways sufficiently FIRST AND FOREMOST to regain some hint of God's blessing and anointing. If so, it will be along the lines of servant leadership operating in the ACTIVE ANOINTED DEMONSTRATED POWER OF GOD that has nothing to do with the !!!!TRADITIONS!!!! or 'exclusivist pretentions' of the INSTITUTION and everything to do with servant hearts face-to-the-floor-humble right before A FIERCELY HOLY ALMIGHTY GOD.

God has hardly begun to clean the House of God on earth. He will get blazingly going in all His fierceness and HE WILL FINISH THE JOB. NO INDIVIDUAL, NO GROUP will be unscathed. That is, no group or individual that really seeks God and wants to live eternally WITH HIM and be authenticall called by His Name.

God must do that. He PROMISED to begin the END TIMES cleaning house with the household of faith.

11 posted on 04/09/2010 2:37:15 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

Well stated.


12 posted on 04/09/2010 2:47:13 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr

Thanks for your kind reply.


13 posted on 04/09/2010 3:04:14 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: RobbyS
The great majority of the charges made are very hold and brought against the local butcher would be thrown out of court. Statutes of limitations are there for a reason

At least in the case of the butcher he would have gone to court, whereas, most of these cases were know long before the statue of limitations had expired and were hidden by the church to accomplish just that convenient resolution.

BTW, your presumption that the civil authorities are so eager to prosecute child molesters flies in face of the evidence

Obviously the German Catholic Bishops, who are more au fait with the stratagems of the church than any devout member of the flock, would disagree they seem to trust them more.

What evidence? I suggest you call the police and tell them that you have knowledge of handicapped children being sodomised and see what the reaction would be.

You are a perfect example of what I wrote in post #6.

14 posted on 04/09/2010 3:31:22 AM PDT by Cardhu
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To: Cardhu

Ironically since 2001 the police have been more attentive to reported child molestation. But you insist on saying that the Church was protecting molesters in a way that, the public schools or protestant churches were not. Fifty years ago, such incidents were indeed buried under a blanket in large part because they were embarrassing to all concerned. Like the legal abortion procured for his daughter by the local school superintendent, or the resignation of the coach who knocked her up, or the mayor caught in adultery with his secretary, or the doctor’s son who in a drunken stupor drives into a house. As in most cases, the victims of the priests are like victims in all these other cases. They can never again have the same trust in people. Their faith has been shattered. And all these things are crimes, but no one does time in jail, in fact 99% of the time there is no prosecution. Is the Church systematically covering up? Over all less than almost any other institution one can name. The public schools constantly “pass the trash,” because there is almost no interconnectivness among the more than 10,000 ISDs. in the USA. Unless a teacher has been convicted of a sex offense, he/she probably can get a job somewhere else in the USA. Out of sight, out of mind applies here. But the schools have a certain immunity. Not only sovereign immunity but because they are more likely to be sued for allowing teachers to display a Bible in a classroom than for “passing on”a teachers accused of a sex offense. There is nothing like SNAPs chasing down misbehaving teachers. We do have the ACLU siccing the dogs on the Boy Scouts, and for one of the same reason: the Scouts are wrong side in the cultural wars and if they can be discredited in the eyes of their suppoters than a major battle has been won.


15 posted on 04/09/2010 4:12:25 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

wait for the facts and the trial


16 posted on 04/09/2010 4:20:06 AM PDT by Puddleglum ("due to the record harvest, rationing will continue as usual")
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To: RobbyS

Save your breath, brother.

This is not about truth. Look at the persistent presentation of the idea of alter Christus (which is also said in the Church’s teaching documents to refer to any baptized Christian). Then ask yourself is people who insist on getting something wrong can reasonably be thought of as caring about getting it right.


17 posted on 04/09/2010 5:18:24 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: RobbyS
Robby that is an argument of a 6 year old -- ..point the finger and say "...he's badder than me."

Actually that has been the defence of all the apologists for the sins of their hierarchy. Remember it is catholic children that have been violated -- the children of your coreligionists.

Remember the conclusion of the priest that wrote the diary of how to succeed as a pedophile. "God will always forgive but society never will."

He may well has said "God and our flock will always forgive..." he would be very close to the reality of the situation.

For your god will always forgive you as he is refection of yourself. If you are mean spirited, vengeful, filled with hate and a paedophile then your God has those characteristics.

If you are kind, compassionate, understanding and loving then your God has the same attributes. Both type will always forgive the believer as you would forgive yourself.

18 posted on 04/09/2010 5:31:07 AM PDT by Cardhu
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Gomez, who has been the archbishop in San Antonio since 2004, also told Fiala's religious order about the investigation and Fiala's suspension, Rodgers said. Fiala is no longer in priestly ministry, according to the order, The Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity.

This man is NOT an archdiocesan priest and does not answer to the archbishop. He answers to his own superiors. Yes, the archbishop can ask the order to remove him and it looks like he did, but they are under no obligation to do so. Every one of the accusations that's come out of San Antonio has been for a member of an order, not an archdiocesan priest. Gomez isn't their superior. Archbishop is not a CEO position.

If these allegations are recent, they should be investigated both in civil and ecclesial courts. The problem comes in, and we've seen this over and over, once the accusation is out, there's no putting the genie back in the bottle if the accused is innocent. That's a good part of the reason that things have always been kept very quiet.

19 posted on 04/09/2010 5:59:55 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Gee, what a coincidence that the lawsuit came out when Gomez was named the new archbishop of LA. Yeah, what a conincidence.


20 posted on 04/09/2010 6:07:02 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...

More attacks on the Church - and from FReepers. Very sad.


21 posted on 04/09/2010 6:09:02 AM PDT by narses (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
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To: Cardhu

What I complain about is that attention is basically ignoring the scope of the evil and portraying the Church as the major source. They don’t even assign proper blame there. For instance, they don’t seem to know that the bishops have hardly more control over the religious orders than they have over universities such as Notre Dame, yet so many of the bad priests are “religious” rather than “secular” (diocesan)priests. One great failure of the bishops has been in not “branding” errant Franciscans or Dominicans, or in accepting priests from other dioceses whose bishops just want them to disappear. Another has been not seeing how great the scope of the problem is. One percent villians might be acceptable in the general population , for such people end up in prison, but not for a priesthood whose vocation is supposed to be sanctity. Psychologism masked as compassion runs through the Church as through society. Given that the priesthood suffered a collapse of morale after the first heady days of Vatican II, bishops alternated between legalism and pudding-headedness as they sought to fill their depleted ranks. Men who in 1940 would have been sent packing from seminaries or even the priesthood stayed and even prospered. And we see the fruits of this kind of slackness. I would be a lot more pessimistic if I didn’t know how corrupt the priests of the diocese of Rome were in the time of St. Philip Neri were. The improvement that followed gives me hope that a cleansing light will purify.


22 posted on 04/09/2010 6:15:18 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

The lies and slander you spread will be brought before you at your judgment. Repent.


23 posted on 04/09/2010 6:47:06 AM PDT by Antoninus (It's a degenerate society where dogs have more legal rights than unborn babies.)
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To: vladimir998
Gee, what a coincidence that the lawsuit came out when Gomez was named the new archbishop of LA. Yeah, what a conincidence.

I'm convinced that a lot of these attacks, if traced all the way back, originate within "progressive" Catholic circles. They are freaking out over Benedict's reforms and are doing everything they can to bring him and his supporters down.
24 posted on 04/09/2010 6:49:02 AM PDT by Antoninus (It's a degenerate society where dogs have more legal rights than unborn babies.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Not so fast.

I bet this is to try to discredit Archbishop Jose Gomez. Read the links about him below.

Latino Immigrants Proud That L.A.'s Next Archbishop Is 'One of Us' [Can We Get Rid of Ethnic Pride?]
In Defense of Archbishop Gomez's Handling of Abuse Scandals
Archbishop Gomez: Who is He?

Why Archbishop Gomez is like other Bishops Appointed by Pope Benedict An Interview with Archbishop José H. Gomez
Gomez vows to be an advocate for L.A.'s immigrants...(misleading title alert!)
San Antonio's Archbishop José Gomez named by Pope to be successor to Cardinal Roger Mahony. ...
Precious words from the archbishop... [Jose Gomez]

New Coadjutor of Los Angeles One of 22 Opus Dei Bishops
Opus Dei Seeks to Make Everyday Life Holier
Archbishop Gomez 'deeply grateful' for Los Angeles appointment
Cardinal Mahony grateful LA will have Hispanic archbishop
Vatican: Archbishop Gomez appointed to Archdiocese of LA

Pope's 'Revenge' As LA Gets Opus Dei Bishop [Pope's "Revenge" on Hollywood Sodomites!]
Gomez Holds Both Conservative And Progressive Views [Denounced College for Pro-Abortion HRC Invite]
Pope Names Latino Leader For L.A. Archdiocese [Member of Conservative Opus Dei Movement]
Historic Appointment to LA Archdiocese
Report: Gomez is going to L.A.

It's Official: New Archbishop [Gomez} for Los Angeles
El Tiempo Ha Venido -- Reports: (Archbishop) Gomez Up to LA (Catholic Caucus)
[To replace Cardinal Mahony] Vatican rumor: an American prelate in play?
Los Angeles Getting a New Archbishop (Part 1)
Los Angeles Getting a New Archbishop (Part 2)

25 posted on 04/09/2010 7:00:50 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; caww
This scandal is pervasive and goes to the heart of a priesthood made up of men who are considered to be an "alter Christus" -- "another Christ."

I'm not sure what "pervasive" means. "They're all at it"? Is that your meaning? Please clarify. Anyway, let's look at some actual numbers for the US.


Source: The John Jay Report

Does that look "pervasive"? OK, the graph stops in '02 but recent data released a couple of weeks ago indicates that there is no recent upwards spike. Overall, 4% of Catholic priests have been accused of sexual misconduct during the years shown in this graph. That figure is heavily skewed by the peak years in the '70s. The number accused over the last decade would be below 1%, I believe.

The "alter Christus" comment is really a theological question which has no bearing on the abuse issue. I presume you're implying that if sin and scandal within the Church reaches some arbitrary, unspecified level, then the Church loses its credibility and/or right to make theological claims about the nature of the priesthood.

That would be a false assumption. The sins of Judas did not in any way alter the nature of the ministry conferred on the other Apostles.

Mahoney Part Deux.

Not really. Religious orders have their own superiors and while they require permission from the local bishop to work in his diocese, the bishop is not responsible for their overall administration or internal discipline.

Minor detail but an important one in this case.

Anything else?

26 posted on 04/09/2010 7:06:32 AM PDT by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

Great chart!


27 posted on 04/09/2010 7:12:23 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marshmallow

Priests had sex with young boys. And the Church and pope did nothing. Despite knowing about it. This is so disgusting that no one in their right mind should try to defend it with graphs or anything else. If there were 800 reports then there were probably 5,000 events. Come on folks—fellow Catholics. There is no defending the Church. They did nothing but mumble nice words like “Let’s forgive”, “Let’s get therapy”, “Let’s not rush to judgement”, etc. Rather, the pope(JPII)and other bishops should have acted like men and said “These degenerates are out of here today. And BTW, call a cop”


28 posted on 04/09/2010 7:50:28 AM PDT by sydney smith
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To: sydney smith
And the Church and pope did nothing.

I take it that you haven't actually done anything connected with the Catholic Church and kids in the USA lately, or you wouldn't be saying this, recalling your background check and the mandatory "child safety" education program you had to go through.

There's a reason that graph has fallen off steeply, and it's precisely because the Church and the her leaders "did something".

Oh, and they weren't "young boys". In more than 80% of the cases, they were teenagers, and the priests involved were homosexuals. That doesn't make it right, but it does make it politically incorrect for liberals to report on it truthfully, which is why the "priests molested young boys" canard keeps being repeated.

29 posted on 04/09/2010 8:02:30 AM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: sydney smith
This is so disgusting that no one in their right mind should try to defend it with graphs or anything else.

Hard data is a pain, isn't it?

Much more fun to use hand-waving generalizations like this; "If there were 800 reports then there were probably 5,000 events.", without a shred of evidence.

Minor point: The graph is not meant to defend (your word) the abuse. It simply shows two things;

1) There was a period when this problem was at a peak and that period has now passed.

2) Something has been and is being "done" about the abuse issue and the number of clergy involved in the USA is a small fraction of the total.

Yes, just a small attempt to bring some sanity to the ever more hyperbolic ranting which appears to be infectious.

30 posted on 04/09/2010 8:03:00 AM PDT by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
The lawsuit accuses the Rev. John M. Fiala of repeatedly sexually assaulting the teen, including twice forcing him to have sex at gunpoint when Fiala was the pastor at Sacred Heart of Mary Parish in the remote community of Rocksprings.

And criminal charges were not filed at the time ... why?

31 posted on 04/09/2010 8:03:20 AM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: Cardhu
There are Bishops in Germany that are encouraging anyone with a complaint go to the civil authorities. Implying that they should not trust the church authorities.

Wow, with logic like that you shouldn't be talking about anyone else's "disconnect from reality".

If a civil crime has been committed, you go to the civil authorities. If a canonical crime has been committed, you go to the church authorities. If an act is a crime in both legal frameworks, you go to both. The police can put a man in jail; the church cannot. The church can remove a man from the priesthood; the police cannot.

No "implications" required.

32 posted on 04/09/2010 8:07:51 AM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: Antoninus

I think you’re right. The libs are going nuts.


33 posted on 04/09/2010 8:22:36 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: RobbyS
Why do do you say this when the Church has done more to address the issue than other institutions?

If what you say is true than why does the problem continue and further has any Priest or has any served jail time for these crimes? If one considers the numbers...then of that how many have been convicted?

There is sin in all denominations among the clergy as well as the congregations...but it does seem that homosexuals have for some time been attracted to the catholic church, as it was and likely still is hidden or covered up. Thus a homosexual would feel safer from prosecution as the church would assist to cover the deed.

I would be curious to know that from this chart how many of those found out were convicted and served jail time? and this at various years the chart depicts. When you also consider the statue of limitations then you have a whole set of other considerations.

34 posted on 04/09/2010 9:33:21 AM PDT by caww
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To: RobbyS; Dr. Eckleburg
The facts for those who are interested:

More Bogus Charges Against Archbishop Gomez
SEX ABUSE LAWSUIT NAMES SAN ANTONIO ARCHDIOCESE
Latino Immigrants Proud That L.A.'s Next Archbishop Is 'One of Us' [Can We Get Rid of Ethnic Pride?]
In Defense of Archbishop Gomez's Handling of Abuse Scandals
Archbishop Gomez: Who is He?

Why Archbishop Gomez is like other Bishops Appointed by Pope Benedict An Interview with Archbishop José H. Gomez
Gomez vows to be an advocate for L.A.'s immigrants...(misleading title alert!)
San Antonio's Archbishop José Gomez named by Pope to be successor to Cardinal Roger Mahony. ...
Precious words from the archbishop... [Jose Gomez]

New Coadjutor of Los Angeles One of 22 Opus Dei Bishops
Opus Dei Seeks to Make Everyday Life Holier
Archbishop Gomez 'deeply grateful' for Los Angeles appointment
Cardinal Mahony grateful LA will have Hispanic archbishop
Vatican: Archbishop Gomez appointed to Archdiocese of LA

Pope's 'Revenge' As LA Gets Opus Dei Bishop [Pope's "Revenge" on Hollywood Sodomites!]
Gomez Holds Both Conservative And Progressive Views [Denounced College for Pro-Abortion HRC Invite]
Pope Names Latino Leader For L.A. Archdiocese [Member of Conservative Opus Dei Movement]
Historic Appointment to LA Archdiocese
Report: Gomez is going to L.A.

It's Official: New Archbishop [Gomez} for Los Angeles
El Tiempo Ha Venido -- Reports: (Archbishop) Gomez Up to LA (Catholic Caucus)
[To replace Cardinal Mahony] Vatican rumor: an American prelate in play?
Los Angeles Getting a New Archbishop (Part 1)
Los Angeles Getting a New Archbishop (Part 2)

35 posted on 04/09/2010 9:38:56 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Antoninus
They are freaking out over Benedict's reforms and are doing everything they can to bring him and his supporters down.

My former manager at work threw an actual tantrum when Benedict was named. I was watching the Vatican on the internet, and when the white smoke came, I yelled "Habemus!" and all the Catholics gathered at my cube to see who, and when they said it was Ratzinger, he threw whatever he was holding on the floor and said some bad words.

36 posted on 04/09/2010 9:58:56 AM PDT by nina0113
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To: caww

Indeed, they have been, but until the 1970s, seminaries took care to weed out candidates who just wanted to be “with the boys.” Many were sent home, with the excuse being that he was “nervous.” As far as those continuing, the Church has radically changed the rules since 2001, but we have to contend with those already inside. With the collapse of morale in the ‘70s, with the departure of many priests to get married, many came in. Attrition is the best policy since most are not, in fact, malefactors. So that it presents a real problem. Unlike the Episcopal Church, however, the foxes have not taken over the hen-house. The Church has not capitulated on the issue of the morality of homosexuality and is adamantly opposed to gay marriage. As to prosecution, better look to the civil authorities.


37 posted on 04/09/2010 10:35:03 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Mmmmm, yeah, right. You might want to read this first before you go dancing with joy over another article trashing the Church: More Bogus Charges Against Archbishop Gomez
38 posted on 04/09/2010 10:36:57 AM PDT by BlessedBeGod (New Wizard of Oz: Pelosi as the Wicked Witch of the West & Michelle as the Wicked Witch of the East.)
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To: RobbyS
.......”the foxes have not taken over the hen-house”.....

Sheep in wolves clothing might better say what they are, and these unfortunately are far more difficult to detect as they hide behind the cloth they wear. At least one can tell the difference between a fox and hen. This the catholic church faces is simply far more diabolical...

I recall a Pope mentioning satan had entered the vatican and how disturbed he was to have evidence of such. Let's hope the current pope will be unafraid to take stronger measures than have been in the past. Somehow I imagine that he will or this plague will continue.

39 posted on 04/09/2010 11:30:02 AM PDT by caww
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Quix; 1000 silverlings; the_conscience; Dutchboy88; HarleyD; wmfights; ...

Praying that God will use the exposure of these crimes to lift the cloud of delusion that affects many Romanists and move them to find Churches that teach the gospel of grace freeing them from the judiazing gospel of Rome.


40 posted on 04/09/2010 11:30:08 AM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: Antoninus

Unfortunately many evil people refuse the repent because deep down they hate Christ.

All you can do is pray for them.


41 posted on 04/09/2010 1:00:11 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: Antoninus; Salvation; NYer; vladimir998; Campion

These Fred Phelps types just seem to multiply in the religion forum. If I didn't actually know better, reading the religion forum threads, the only conclusion I could draw would be that protestantism's basic thread is hatred.

42 posted on 04/09/2010 1:07:59 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: caww
If what you say is true than why does the problem continue and further has any Priest or has any served jail time for these crimes?

I can name three currently in prison, one of whom was laicized, but not civilly convicted at the time (the offense wasn't criminally illegal, truthfully, but was a violation of the office of the confessional), and is incarcerated in another state for a crime committed after his release from the priestly state. At least when he was buried within the archdiocese in a place with no ministerial contact, he was under a sort of house arrest. Once this man was laicized and turned loose on society...well, another person out there suffered and probably now has a life ruined.

43 posted on 04/09/2010 1:35:09 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Antoninus

Someone on another thread said something about this all being a planned attack - I think there is something to it. It’s all too coordinated using the NYT, AP and other media outlets sympathetic to the “progressive” cause. It really does smack of a plan being carried out. The word choices, the innuendo, the carefully excised details and facts - rather Alinsky-esque, actually.


44 posted on 04/09/2010 1:39:29 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: marshmallow
Hard data is a pain, isn't it?

Yes, it is. Thanks for posting that graph; I was going to do so myself.

The scandal has provided various groups with various agendas a hook to hang their hats on. The (political) Left wants the Church discredited so as to ram through legal support for various immoralities the Church opposes. The (political) Right wouldn't mind having the Church out of the way too much, either, because she reminds them that their favorite wars are subject to the principles of jus ad bellum and jus in bello, that torture is intrinsically evil, and that they really ought to something besides pay lip-service to the pro-life issues. Liberal dissenters within the Church see it as an opportunity to reshape our theology and disciplines until they're no longer recognizably Christian, rather like the Anglicans have done. Reactionary dissenters would like to pretend that all was rainbows and unicorns before the irredeemably evil Second Vatican Council initiated an "auto-demolition"; the facts don't support that thesis either.

Finally, we come to the prejudices of our separated brethren, who would like to induce a sense of demoralization among us, so that we will come to find the reallio-trulio Jesus in the Third Fifty-Ninth Street Baptist Methodist Episcopal Foursquare Full-Gospel Church of God in Christ and Part-Time Bar and Grill. Pointing out that their own similar problems makes their argument problematic is unlikely to be well-received, but this, too, is a bit of hard data they have so far refused to reckon with.

Why continue to be Catholic then? Because the Catholic Church is the historical Church founded by Jesus Christ. Because it created Western Civilization and Christendom, before the latter was smashed by Protestants, giving aid and comfort to the Muslim invaders. Because it understands human nature in the light of Christ's teachings better than anybody, and has worked out practical methods of applying them to community life at all levels of political organization. Because the efficacy of the sacraments are not dependent upon the personal sanctity of the priest who administers them. Because the experience of most of us under most conditions is that of priests who keep their vows and do not engage in corrupt behavior. And, finally, because Jesus Himself told us that there would be tares among the wheat, and that we were not to try to eliminate the former as we might end up damaging the latter in the process.

So, sorry, dear separated brethren and sisters in Christ. Your campaign of demoralization is doomed to failure.

45 posted on 04/09/2010 1:42:04 PM PDT by cantabile
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To: big'ol_freeper
Yes, it's unnerving to see so many soi-disant Christians concentrating so determinedly (to the point of salivating over) other people's sins. Not a sign of spiritual health, I wouldn't think!
46 posted on 04/09/2010 2:21:37 PM PDT by maryz
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To: caww

The pope must have many enemies. And you recall how John Paul decided not to take on the Jesuits,some of whom sit in the synagogue of satan. A pope is not an emperor, and even a man as determined as Pius V has only a limited ability to control events. The Holy Father cannot move beyond where his strength can take him. Pray for him that he might outsmart and outlast them. But God’s will be done.


47 posted on 04/09/2010 2:33:53 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Desdemona

It is as if orchestrated from the White House. The Church came close to scuttling the healthcare bill. This despite the large number of liberals in strategic places in the Church. The Notre Dame Catholics gave the House Catholics a convenient cover. although it was probably the brutal tactics of the leadership that persuaded them to vote for the bill. The timing is just suspicious.


48 posted on 04/09/2010 2:43:22 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: RobbyS

I doubt it was the White House. This effort demonstrates a competence the current administration has yet to display in any capacity.


49 posted on 04/09/2010 3:00:19 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: sydney smith

What a breath of fresh among stink weeds of denial.


50 posted on 04/09/2010 3:30:09 PM PDT by Cardhu
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