And how many anti-Catholic bigots here walk hand in glove with those Obama-worshipping toadies?
Someone here recently said that the current Pope
1. Has gone after the homosexuals in the ranks and in the leadership.
2. For that he has been attacked by the left and the media for “pedophilia”.
I.E. in trying to address the problem he’s being accused of encouraging or allowing that what he’s trying to stop. I can totally believe the left and the media would do just this.
I have to say, that other than knowing that the left and media are a bunch of slimeballs, I have NO particular knowledge or expertise. So I could have it all wrong. But maybe not.
Thanks for this.
It disgusts me how instead of attacking perversion in the Church and the corrupt actions of MORTALS (ie bishops) the kool-aid drinking Catholics continue to defend those who were complicit in the corruption.
Many of the founders were suspicious of the RCC due to its tendency toward political intrigue and corruption. Defending such corruption doesn't make Catholics look anything but stupid in the eyes of their fellow Americans.
As someone who's worked with abused kids (and abusers), I can tell you the subject just causes some people's brains to short-circuit. It's heinous in a way even murder isn't, mostly because of the motive (we don't condone murder, but we get what it is--someone is evil, or was pushed to strike back, or is nuts or greedy or whatever). It's not about agreeing with that, it's understanding it.
Molestation is something else. It seems like something a human didn't do, but an alien being.
To listen to the media, one would think priests do nothing but molest children. Even those here who pride ourselves on "not drinking the media Kool-Aid" have indeed been influenced by them; our intense denial only proves how insidious such influence is.
Add to this the undeniable facts that the church has a history of moving priests around when such situations occur.
I hate to use this cliche again but these factors really do combine to produce a perfect storm for the creation of a fall-back position of assuming guilt.
One has to take a deep breath, stop being emotional, and look at each individual case as one would with ANY individual charged with a crime. But most people don't--the treat priests not as fellow citizens but as members of an elite club, apart from the rest of us. Fair or not, but when I say "politician" or "country singer" or "movie star" or "Nobel prize-winning physicist," you have a set of assumptions about that person to begin with, which are then adjusted when I then say the individual's name. But even then, you've still got assumptions about those individuals--they're not blank slates, and that's because they belong to a group, and we all have our own judgment about groups.
If one doesn't despise priests, the accusation itself is shocking, and there have been so many accusations publicized that one might just think "Another one." The reaction would be far different if the report was about a regular blue collar worker.
But priests are not regular folks. The fact is, priests belong to a group which has had a great deal of publicity about the handling of such cases in the past. When you hear about plumbers who've molested, do you also hear that the plumbers union has moved such accused around to avoid trouble? When you hear of an ex-husband so accused, you know he's just a guy, not someone who might have done this before and been allowed to move away.
I agree that we have to be aware of the opportunities the leftists are taking to attack the church. At the same time, the faithful like yourself have to admit, the church left themselves wide open for this kind of thing. Your anger is justified, but you should spare some of it for the church.
“Nifonging the Catholic Church”
Didn’t Nifong persecute those young men over something that NEVER HAPPENED? Because if that is the point....”nifonging” doesn’t work in this case.
I don’t know HOW warranted your rant is.
Certainly there is a foul element in human nature to dog-pile on a victim or weak person or even merely an accused person.
And, it IS deplorable to judge, jury, sentence and execute someone (as though we were GOD ALMIGHTY) mentally, spiritually, verbally when very little, if any, solid evidence is in, much less considered fairly.
I don’t know of even the most rabid clique Roman Catholics, Prottys et al hereon who would cheer or condone the outrageously destructive assaultive actions of far too long a list of priests, ministers, teachers, troop leaders, and the like.
Horrifically sinful is dispicable to all of us who truly seek God and His ways.
And, too often, arrogance, self-righteousness, haughtiness, smugness, over-confidence, confidence in the flesh . . . all conspire to convince us unwarrantedly that WE would NEVER stoop to such exceedingly black and trashy sins. OUR sins are minor chalk scribblings on the side-walk, by comparison—we are prone to self-congratulate ourselves on.
I don’t think that’s God’s perspective.
Scripture teaches and certainly Holy Spirit is skillful to teach that with regard to virtually ANY SIN—given sufficiently ATTACHMENT DISORDERED childhood plus sufficiently contributive circumstances and pressures, virtually any of us could be guilty of virtually anything.
THAT is part of the lesson of the parable of the publican . . .
Luke 18:13
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
NONE of us live flawlessly as we ought.
ONLY the Blood of Jesus covers any of us sufficiently to face God for the briefest moment—much less for eternity.
Some of us deplore many of the excesses, heresies, outrages, traditions of Roman Catholocism et al, Pentecostalism etc, Calvinism etc. more or less to the max of our emotional perspectives.
There is a very great spiritual hazard, however, in looking down our long noses and long pointy fingers at the OUT-GROUP over THERE, and the worst examples in it.
God almost began this human scene with ONE OUT-GROUP—MANKIND.
ONLY THE BLOOD OF JESUS AFFORDS ANY OF US THE REMOTEST CHANCE TO BE IN HIS IN-GROUP.
And our propensities to judge, be bitter, resentful and unforgiving toward/of THOSE OUT-GROUP IDIOTS over THERE is very hazardous to our spiritual health, if not our eternal destination.
Some in our respective camps seem to gleefully, eagerly look for chances to black wash the folks in and perspectives of the other camp(s).
THAT’s NOT heeding the truths and wisdom of Luke 18:13. That’s not obeying the Lord in HIS PRAYER to, “Father, forgive us OUR SINS, AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO SIN AGAINST US.”
Certainly there are legitimate reasons for us to be outraged at what we perceive to be horrific heresies, blasphemies, perverse assaultive sins.
SOMETIMES, at least, there are MORE reasons for us to be cirucmspect, sobered, reflective . . . and to cry, LORD, BE MERCIFUL TO ME, A SINNER.
There are spiritual principles involved.
1. We reap what we sow, more or less inexorably—certainly apart from God’s Grace, Mercy, and forgiveness . . . and usually, to some degree even with such ministrations of His Love.
2. And, it doesn’t matter how lily white and necessary WE THINK OUR rants, perspectives, saintliness, preaching, etc. is. God looks on the heart.
3. And Judging has a particularly devastating boomerang effect in the spiritual realm and in the tangible realm. Unfitting, carnal, fleshy, critical, self-righteous judgment ALWAYS returns to bite us in our sitter or other embarrassing parts—such as our noses in the air, our long fingers or our out-thrust jaws.
4. God has a way of pulling the feathers out of the nest and the blinders off our self-delusion off to the point that we become actively in our flesh that which we have so haughtily and so self-righteously judged others for. AND NO ONE IS IMMUNE.
These principles, truths, spiritual laws ARE OPERANT whether we want to admit it, realize it and live accordingly, or not.
We can learn so earlier and easier or the opposite.
We WILL LEARN SO—now or at the point of our graduation from this life.
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I don’t think I have a solution to the seemingly interminable hashing and rehashing of the sins of omissions, comissions, emissions the Pope, priests, ministers, youth pastors, teachers et al.
I have a caution.
Unwarranted, unfitting, unnecessarily prolonged—haughty, self=righteous, pointy-fingered outrage
is EXTREMELY SPIRITUALLY HAZARDOUS to the authors and to those who read such and cheer unfittingly in their hearts and minds.
There is in the nature of human psychology and IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP DYNAMICS to gleefully, eagerly
run screaming to DADDY . . .
SEE, DADDY, HE KICKED OVER MY SANDCASTLE, HE’S BEEN BURNING ANTS AGAIN! SLAP HIM DADDY, SLAP HIM!
Yeah, Daddy probably needs called on some things and earlier than later. And, proper discipline needs to be applied.
YEAH, ALL SYSTEMS and ALL institutions have horrific tendencies to wrap themselfs in robes of self-righteousness and protect the institution at all costs, as though the institution were GOD ALMIGHTY ITSELF. And !!!!TRADITION!!!! bound institutions that have been at it a long time are the worst about that.
Nevertheless we are wise to use our mirrors exhaustively—and to ask Holy Spirit for HIS SEARCH LIGHT ON OUR deceitfully wicked hearts before playing Don Quixote with the windmills.
SOME Roman Catholics et al will defend their INSTITUTION as though they were defending GOD HIMESLF because they seem incapable of construing a great deal of difference between them. What else is new.
SOME Calvinists will defend that perspective fiercely at the drop of a hat because they construe that to be GOD BREATHED TRUTH indivisible from The Gospel. What else is new.
SOME Pentecostals will defend speaking in tongues fiercely in a flash because they construe that to be a GOD-GIVEN DIALOGUE-WITH-GOD-GIFT, inheritance for the church age. What else is new.
Some of us hereon love energetic, emotional, intense exchanges. It’s our personalities, our background, our training, our fascination, our exercise, our fun—perhaps for some—an obsession. What else is new.
And, I realize there’s ever new crops of lurkers that HAVE A RIGHT TO/ MUST BE ‘indoctrinated with the ‘TRULY TRUEST TRUTH OF OUR UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES.’ What else is new.
Nevertheless, the shrill attacks and shrill counter attacks surrounding the perverse sexual hideousness is more than a LOT wearisome.
Is there any hope that we could soon get to the point where we could lay it aside as a horse soundly beat to smithereens—to powder and blown to the four winds?
I deplore spiritual and behavioral hideousness within and without as much as the next Christian.
And, I’ll probably be redundant again again about this or that pet topic more than a few times before I graduate from this life.
However, there really ARE CHRISTIANS WHO LOVE JESUS on all sides of these issues. We COULD spend a BIT MORE TIME acting and sounding like it.
And, there are some . . . hereon . . .
for whom the Roman Catholic et al INSTITUTION can essentially do NO WRONG
long enough or horribly enough or hypocritically enough
TO WARRANT, FOR THEM,
serious, thorough examination and candor.
That’s outrageous, too, Dear Heart.
Please keep in mind what Peter has to say on this subject:
1Pe 4:14-15 If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler.
Christians SHOULD criticize other Christians when they have placed themselves in compromising positions. In many of the priests cases, they have admitted to molesting children. The Church's solution has been to reassign them or retire them-giving them full burial rights as a priests. I doubt if Peter would have been so generous if a person was known to have molested a child. However, we are so much more enlightened than what Peter said through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
There are some who are out to destroy Christianity. These people will make all sorts of false charges against God's people. This is nothing new. You may recall the righteous Naboth was falsely accused of cursing God just so Ahab could steal his vineyard. He was stoned but God exacted His vengeance on perpetrators. And many years after Naboth died, people talked about Naboth's righteousness and the unrighteous evil that was brought on him by men. Naboth became a testimony to God even after his death and God used it for His glory. Our lives are a testimory to God whether we are living or have passed away-and we should conduct ourselves accordingly. As Peter states, we may have insults hurled at us. So what?
The bottom line in all of this is that Christians shouldn't even begin to have these types of charges brought against them. When they do, other Christians should be critical. If the accused are innocent, God will reward them in due time. If the accused are guilty they need to seriously repent and face the consequences, or be kicked out of the Church.
What we really need is a good dose of FEAR of the Lord.
JA, didn’t you know that your well meaning thread would just become a “Bash the Catholic Church” opportunity?