The Eternity of Hell

Bible Tidbits ^ | 5/27/2010 | Daniel Egan

[markomalley]

There are a few who say that hell is not eternal and that some day God’s mercy will overcome his justice and hell will be emptied. What does the Bible and catechism say about this?

CCC 1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.
CCC 393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death." [St. John Damascene, Defide orth. 2, 4: PG 94, 877]

So the catechism is clear that once we have died we have made our choice. And it is in fact a choice that we make here on earth.

The Bible says in Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment

So we have had our chance and then comes judgment…now something that we must keep in mind is that God is not a jerk. Everyone is offered the grace to go to heaven. Now to some it might not be as evident as it is to others but that is God’s business. Just because Jimmy down the street saw an apparition of our Lady and you didn’t doesn’t mean that he is guaranteed a place in heaven. He still needs to obey the gospel the best way he knows.

There is also in Romans 2:14-16 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Exactly so keep those things in mind

Continuing on, Jesus says in Matthew 25:41 that Hell was originally prepared for the devil and his angels.

It wasn’t originally created for humans who had rebelled but for the angels. But now we see that those who share in the sin of disobedience before death share in the fate of the devils and are sent to Hell.

But is Hell eternal! Yes and to those who did not clothe, feed, or visit Christ he will say - Matthew 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Notice that there is a contrast between the eternity of the punishment and the eternity of the reward.

If someone argues that God’s mercy will some day triumph over his justice and thus free the souls from hell, how do we know that at some later date God’s justice won’t triumph over his mercy and send everyone to hell? This is an undependable position.

Mark 9:43-48 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. 44 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. 46 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

Now Jesus here isn’t recommending a lot of one armed one legged Christians. He is here warning us of the seriousness of this life and its effects on the afterlife. And that somehow he must communicate the terribleness of Hell, Jesus says that it is better to loose a limb than experience the pains of hell.

I would also say that there are some moral and theological danger to the teaching that hell will be emptied.
First is that in the churches 2000 years it has never taught this. So to teach it is to divorce yourself from the churches teaching.
Second I would then wonder what the purpose of purgatory would be - would a person who went to hell still have to go to purgatory?
Third, if I am going to heaven anyway, why not live it up here on earth? Its not like I am going to hell for eternity?
Finally, those who are in hell, have no wish to be in heaven because the one that they refused to serve is there and to see him face to face for all eternity would be worse than hell.
C.S. Lewis said that the door to hell is locked - from the inside. They want to keep God out.

[Leoni]

(Luke 16:19-31) There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,

(21 Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. 23 And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: 24 And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. 25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

(22 "Abraham's bosom"... The place of rest, where the souls of the saints resided, till Christ had opened heaven by his death.

(26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. 27 And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house, for I have five brethren, 28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. 29 And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.

(31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

There are numerous Church approved books the reveal MANY cases of Catholics, and Saints, that have come back from the dead to reveal what happens after death. The Church doctrines infallible tell us what happens after death. If persons choose not to believe them, they are just like Lazarus's relatives. If they hear not the Catholic Church and the Saints, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

[Leoni]

Re: The fact of the matter is we don’t know what happens after we die. We can believe, be sure, be confident, even “know” what will happen...but we don’t know.

(Luke 16:19-31) There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,

(21 Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. 23 And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: 24 And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. 25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

(22 "Abraham's bosom"... The place of rest, where the souls of the saints resided, till Christ had opened heaven by his death.

(26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. 27 And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house, for I have five brethren, 28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. 29 And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.

(31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

There are numerous Church approved books the reveal MANY cases of Catholics, and Saints, that have come back from the dead to reveal what happens after death. More importantly, the Catholic Church's doctrines infallible tell us what happens after death. If persons choose not to believe them, they are just like Lazarus's relatives. If they hear not the Catholic Church and the Saints, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

[Leoni]

Re: The fact of the matter is we don’t know what happens after we die. We can believe, be sure, be confident, even “know” what will happen...but we don’t know.

(Luke 16:19-31) There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,

(21 Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. 23 And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: 24 And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. 25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

(22 "Abraham's bosom"... The place of rest, where the souls of the saints resided, till Christ had opened heaven by his death.

(26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. 27 And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house, for I have five brethren, 28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. 29 And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.

(31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

There are numerous Church approved books the reveal MANY cases of Catholics, and Saints, that have come back from the dead to reveal what happens after death. More importantly, the Catholic Church's doctrines infallible tell us what happens after death. If persons choose not to believe them, they are just like Lazarus's relatives. If they hear not the Catholic Church and the Saints, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

[stuartcr]

OK, thanks

[stuartcr]

I would imagine that before He breathes life into each of us, God knows what we are going to do and where we will end up anyway, doesn’t He?

[stuartcr]

Blasphemer!!

[Niuhuru]

I sometimes think even God doesn’t know. He gave us free will to go about our lives so I am sure that each time we do something that we think is unexpected of us, even He is surprised.

If He didn’t give us free will, he would ultimately decide our fate instead of ourselves. Which is why some end up in Hell. Remember, He is not willing that any should perish, but it happens.

If he could control us entirely, then we would all end up in heaven. But we don’t and I am sure that He wouldn’t have it that way if He could. But He gave us choice, so we have that choice.

[norge]

That's a pretty strong accusation, since you do not know what I believe.

I merely stated that no one truly knows what happens after death, and that is plainly an objective fact.

Even a close reading of the Bible does not make clear what happens when a human dies. But even if you believed what the Bible says (and I do), you cannot "know" what happens after death. As I stated, you can be confident, you can be sure, you can believe, you can even profess to know, but you can't really know, and to me that is the very essence of faith.

I have a hard time understanding how that is blasphemy.

[Niuhuru]

Heaven is different for people. Some people are happy as clams working in a science lab while others are out playing soccer all day. I read a bit of “lovely Bones” and it summed things up well.

Some people spend time reading all day and others gardening and others building their own city to their specifications. I think heaven is like Earth, only you don’t’ have to worry about anything, just go about your business and enjoy life.

“Sometimes people wonder why some folks live to be so very old while others die at such a young age.”

I wonder about that too. Like Princess Diana, dying at thirty-six and Her Majesty still kicking and thriving at nearly a hundred years old.

I sometimes think it’s an attitude thing. Diana complained unhappily all the time and was self destructive while being blessed with great health, wealth, and beauty and adoration. She didn’t have Jesus, but I wonder if for some reason God ran out of patience (it happens) and just decided that her time was up.

I know that people with healthy, positive attitudes die young too and without all that Diana had, but I just wonder about that a lot. Other times He gives people almost unlimited chances and opportunities to restart their life and get it together.

What do you think?

[thecodont]

I am not sure, but from what I recollect, it seems that the gaze of God is one that goes directly into the pit of one's soul. And, the soul decides whether it wants to be with God or not for eternity.

C.S. Lewis illustrated this in his children's story of the Apocalypse, The Last Battle.

At the end of the world (Narnia's world), the judged come to the doorway where Aslan (Jesus Christ) stands. Everyone must meet His gaze when approaching the doorway. Some meet His gaze and love (and fear) Him, these go into Paradise, through the doorway. Others meet His gaze and hate Him, these go into Hell, His shadow extending on the other side of the doorway, and they are not seen again.

"At the end, everyone will come to a doorway where Aslan [Jesus] will stand. Some will respond with love and devotion, others with fear and hatred. Are we ready for the end of Narnia, or are we prepared for our own ending?"

http://www.saintmatthew.org/media/notes/NarniaWedTLB.pdf

[stuartcr]

I always thought God knew everything, even the future. Thanks for the update.

[stuartcr]

Sorry, I don’t know the character for ‘tongue in cheek’, but I didn’t think you would take it seriously.

I said that because my experience over the years here at FR, is that freepers KNOW that sort of stuff. I’ve been asking myself and practically anyone that will listen, how they can actually know these sort of things instead of just believing.

[stuartcr]

Well then, it must be so.

[Theo]

That sounds good, but it’s not biblical. Those who end up in hell are actively and intentionally *cast* into hell by God. See the words of Jesus in Luke 12:5, Mark 9:47 and elsewhere.

Or consider Rev. 20:15: “And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” They aren’t going to jump. They will have been thrown.

May we take warning.

[NavyCanDo]

Revelation 20 is pretty clear. Hell is forever.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[norge]

Fair enough. Try this .../sarc

[norge]

I said that because my experience over the years here at FR, is that freepers KNOW that sort of stuff.

I understand your plight, and from my point of view, it would not be unusual for some of those same people to level the b-charge

[Niuhuru]

I think he knows the future, just not OUR futures. He has a time plan for the Earth, not the people in it, except for those he puts his finger on.

I have this philosophy that there comes a time when He puts His finger on someone, which is why so many of our greatest historical figures have had such hard childhoods. When they lift His finger, they gain strength and in the end do what they were meant to do with the strength He gave them. Then, when all is said and done, they go to heaven.

Which would explain the lives of our greatest saints and historical figures. I think the only reason that tyrants are made is because they shove off God’s finger and than run amok. Whether they like it or not, God put his finger on them and expected them to lift it and do good.

I’m in SUCH a philosophical mood with this thread.

[Niuhuru]

“Revelation 20 is pretty clear. Hell is forever.”

Same with Heaven. What I don’t and never will understand is that people can’t accept that if you do so many bad things, that you will end up in Hell as punishment. Like people who are in prison for life after committing a hideous crime and want to get out after ‘finding God.’ Better to pay on Earth than after you’re dead when you have to face the ultimate reward or punishment. Because after death there are no more chances to make up for things, good or bad.

[Slyfox]

You fail to mention whether they cast themselves, or not.

No matter what, I will continue to pray for God's mercy.