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Mystery of the Trinity
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/937/Mystery_of_the_Trinity.html ^ | June 11, 2006 | by: Dr. Marcellino D'Ambrosio

Posted on 05/30/2010 2:09:35 PM PDT by Salvation

Mystery of the Trinity

by: Dr. Marcellino D'Ambrosio

 

 

Mystery of the TrinityThe Trinity has always been a difficult doctrine to swallow.  First of all, there is this statement from Sunday’s first reading: “The Lord is God in the heavens above and on the earth below, and there is no other.”  This was tough for anyone to accept in the days of the Old Testament when people generally honored sky gods, sun gods, water gods, and specialized gods for about every aspect of human life and every region of human habitation.  C’mon, there’s only one God?

We might smirk at the ancients, but we have a very similar problem today.  It flows from a philosophy called relativism, but winds up with much the same result.  You might believe in Jesus, I believe in Buddha, and our neighbor reveres Allah.  Your God is true for you, his is for him, mine for me.

 Yet the Bible insists, and the Catholic Church along with it, that there is only one God.  And that God is not an “it”, some impersonal “force”, but a “Him,” more truly personal than any of us.   In fact He is so personal, that from all eternity He is interpersonal–three persons in perfect union of will and activity, so perfect that they are truly One God, not three. Everything in our experience is finite, meaning that it has limits, including the degree of unity that we can have in our relationships.  God’s inner unity, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is unlimited and perfect, love pouring itself, one person into another, ceaselessly, at every moment, for ever and ever amen.

 Holy Trinity - Father, Son and Holy SpiritThe author of the Da Vinci Code is not the first to allege that the Church made up this whole Trinity thing.  Various sects in the first few centuries plus the Muslims made this accusation.  Then the Jehovah’s Witnesses rehashed it in the 19th century, blaming the Roman Emperor Constantine.

 Bur really, everything but the term “Trinity” is right there in the Scriptures.  In Sunday's reading from Romans 8, Paul speaks of the Father, Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all in the same few verses, distinct and yet one.  In John’s Gospel, Jesus dialogues with his Father in prayer, showing their distinction, yet boldly proclaims “The Father and I are One.”  Jesus, in this Sunday’s Gospel, sends forth the disciples to baptize people in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”  Note he does not say in the “names” but in the “name”, showing the unity of these persons.  And baptizing in this triune name demonstrates their equality as well, for what sense would it make to baptize in the name of three, one of whom is God and the other two of whom are not?

 But this feast of the Most Holy Trinity does not just celebrate the nature, grandeur, and beauty of God.  It also recalls that we have been baptized or plunged into this energizing reality of divine love.  God has drawn us in to share in the dynamism of his own inner life.  He has not called us servants, but friends.  It is not just the Holy Spirit who indwells our souls, but the entire Trinity who has made each of us a dwelling place.  The three divine persons are loving each of us in us and want to love others through us.

 Jesus Christ - Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy SpiritSome charge that we call this doctrine a mystery because we want to cover up how illogical and preposterous it is.  No, it is a mystery because it exceeds our powers of imagination and comprehension.  But shouldn’t we expect the inner nature of God to be greater than our finite minds?  Any reality that our minds can master is by definition inferior to our minds.  The Supreme Being by definition has to be greater than our minds.

 Fabrication?  Impossible.  Human minds cook up things that other human beings are likely to buy.  Three gods?  People could handle that.  How about a hierarchy of one supreme God with two assistant demi-gods?  That would work.  Three equal but distinct persons in one divine being strains the brain too much to have been concocted by a bunch of theologians or politicians.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; trinity
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A discussion for today.
1 posted on 05/30/2010 2:09:35 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; Lady In Blue; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; Catholicguy; RobbyS; markomalley; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

2 posted on 05/30/2010 2:10:57 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Think of it as a block of ice on a hot frying pan. The water, ice and steam exist in the same general area and are made of the same molecules, but they’re in different states and act differently.


3 posted on 05/30/2010 2:32:34 PM PDT by NorthStarStateConservative (I'm just another disabled naturalized minority vegan pro life conservative.)
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To: NorthStarStateConservative

Excellent example. I used that with children before to illustrate the solid, liquid and gas theories of matter!


4 posted on 05/30/2010 2:41:42 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; Irisshlass; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

5 posted on 05/30/2010 2:42:56 PM PDT by narses ( 'Prefer nothing to the love of Christ.')
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To: Salvation; NorthStarStateConservative

No plasma?


6 posted on 05/30/2010 2:43:19 PM PDT by narses ( 'Prefer nothing to the love of Christ.')
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To: Salvation

Here’s the way I look at the Trinity:

God the Father is the great “I am”, creator, sustainer and maintainer of all that exists. Jesus Christ the Son of God is “the image of the invisible God” (COL 1:15), or the “Word made flesh” that dwelt among us” (JOHN 1:14) in our space-time. The Holy Sprit is God’s presence and the agent of His will in our space-time. Note that He (the Spirit) “beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth” (1JOHN 5). One God, three manifestations.

As a point of interest, in Matt 3:16,17, all three elements of the Trinity were present and monifested in our space-time at Jesus’ baptism: “16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased”.

This is as much as my finite mind can grasp of what the Scrpture has to say about the Trinity. Your comments are welcome.


7 posted on 05/30/2010 2:52:56 PM PDT by bopdowah ("Shove it down our throats in 2009 & we'll shove it up your ass in 2010!')
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To: narses
No plasma with kindergarteners. But they got the 3 froms OK!

The Four States of Matter - Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma

Matter - The Three States of Water 


8 posted on 05/30/2010 2:53:27 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Everything in our experience is finite, meaning that it has limits, including the degree of unity that we can have in our relationships. God’s inner unity, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is unlimited and perfect, love pouring itself, one person into another, ceaselessly, at every moment, for ever and ever amen.

Excellent article. Thank you. When I read this particular paragraph, I got this kind of "brain zap", so to speak. I think it was a very good way to explain how the "being" of God is infinite in that it is present in all the dimensions we know about. As we are body, soul, spirit - and made in the image of God - so Almighty God is also existent in these forms and experiences all because he is present in all. I don't claim to be a scholar, I know, it shows!

9 posted on 05/30/2010 3:41:05 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: Salvation

St. Patrick and the three leaf clover come to mind.


10 posted on 05/30/2010 3:46:23 PM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannolis. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Salvation

The Holy Three-in-One..

My mother used to use her Singer Three-in-One oil for her sewing machine to explain the Trinity to me...She called it her Holy Three-in-One oil and would tell me again of the Trinity...she never tired oif telling me and I never tired oif listening...

God the Father, God the Son, (Jesus, the Word) and God the Holy Spirit...

As we sing in the last line of the 1st verse of the great 1826 Hymn, Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, that was written for Trinity Sunday,

“God in Three Persons, Holy Trinity”


11 posted on 05/30/2010 3:58:09 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Salvation

Whoops that should have been

“God in Three Persons, Blessed Trinity”


12 posted on 05/30/2010 3:59:05 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian; greyfoxx39; reaganaut; Utah Binger; MHGinTN

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee;
Holy, holy, holy, merciful and mighty!
God in three Persons, blessèd Trinity!

Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore Thee,
Casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
Cherubim and seraphim falling down before Thee,
Who was, and is, and evermore shall be.

Holy, holy, holy! though the darkness hide Thee,
Though the eye of sinful man Thy glory may not see;
Only Thou art holy; there is none beside Thee,
Perfect in power, in love, and purity.

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
All Thy works shall praise Thy Name, in earth, and sky, and sea;
Holy, holy, holy; merciful and mighty!
God in three Persons, blessèd Trinity!

Words: Re­gi­nald He­ber, 1826. Heber wrote this hymn for Trin­i­ty Sun­day while he was Vi­car of Hod­net, Shrop­shire, Eng­land.

Music: Nicaea, John B. Dykes, in Hymns An­cient and Mo­dern, 1861


13 posted on 05/30/2010 4:07:33 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: NorthStarStateConservative

Silly example to support the trinity being one god.

Steam is not water and water is not ice and ice is not steam.

God is not Jesus, Jesus is not holy spirit, and Jesus is not God.

Or else the term Son of God and no meaning if God and Jesus are equivalent terms and can be used interchangeably.

Scriptures clearly state that God is invisible and that no man has seen God at any time.

Scriptures clearly state that God is not a man and that God cannot be tempted with evil.

The man Christ Jesus, is the mediator between men and God. Jesus is the visible representation of the invisible God. Jesus was tempted in all ways.

God called Jesus his son. Jesus called God his father.

I tend to believe that God and Jesus knew who they and each other were. However we humans needed to hold council in nicea to elect Jesus to an office to which he never aspired.


14 posted on 05/30/2010 5:43:42 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: bopdowah

I am putting together a Scriptural Rosary for Priests and I included that quote — only from the RSV in it.


15 posted on 05/30/2010 7:26:34 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: boatbums

Our finite minds are quite feeble when it comes to understanding the Trinity. I think that’s why I liked the title of this. “Mystery” of the Trinity”


16 posted on 05/30/2010 7:28:16 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Tennessee Nana

what a great way to explain the Trinity.

We sang “Holy, Holy, Holy” today too.

We also sang “Holy God we praise Thy Name”

Third verse
Holy Father, Holy Son, Holy Spirit, three we name Thee.


17 posted on 05/30/2010 7:30:40 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

A cogent, short, clear, and entirely positive explanation on the nature of the one God in three Persons.

May we each and all kneel in our hearts and bodies before his holy, loving nature.


18 posted on 05/30/2010 8:45:37 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: NorthStarStateConservative

The 3 forms of water, Ice, liquid and steam, are not quite the same as one God in 3 persons—and if we take that example too literally, it can lead us to “modalism” probably the most common mistake people make about God in trinity.

Modalism, like the name, says that God has 3 modes, or ways of relating to us...either as a Father, or a Son or a Spirit. However, that would also place a person, behind and unknowable, behind the modes or masks.... and each role or mode...as a kind of disguise or deception of the real person.

Classic trinitarianism though acknowledges 3 real persons...each of whom is equally the one God. When/if you come to know one, you do know all 3...but each person is, as the text beautifully says above, “more truly personal than any of us” in a perfect union of Love with each of the other two, so much so they are one being...and that way from all eternity.

That is quite different than the modes of ice, water and steam.....


19 posted on 05/30/2010 8:54:45 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: Eagle Eye

The Old Testament clearly indicates that only God is to be worshiped. Numerous examples exist of prophets starting to worship angels (since they are so glorious) and being sternly corrected for that.

However, Jesus never corrected anyone who worshiped and bowed down to him. Numerous examples in the New Testament call Jesus “Lord and God” and have persons freely worshiping Him. Such is blasphemy...an offense one would be executed for under Jewish law...IF it were not true.

Jesus even used the covenant name for God...Y_hw_h, (or “I Am.”) referring to Himself...and was nearly stoned to death for it....(showing they indeed knew was He was saying). To this day Orthodox Jews avoid saying that name out loud...it is so holy....yet, Jesus used it to refer to Himself.

God is indeed Spirit, but the Gospels clearly indicate the Holy Spirit, in real history, came upon the blessed virgin Mary and miraculously made her pregnant. Without the virgin birth we don’t have anyone who can possibly be a Mediator...someone fully God, yet, also, fully human, the one Man, Christ Jesus.

Christians have ALWAYS worshiped Jesus as God—if you don’t—you’re free to do that, but you are simply not a Christian, and to be historically truthful, you shouldn’t claim the name.


20 posted on 05/30/2010 9:09:48 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: All
The real test of understanding one God in three distinct Persons is, if you THINK you've got it...you don't.

3 forms of water don't work...3 leaves of a clover don't either...3 parts of an apple...all of these are simplifications which try to make esentially rational, or capturable...by our finite brains, that which, or rather He whom, is infinite and un-capturable.

Some charge that we call this doctrine a mystery because we want to cover up how illogical and preposterous it is. No, it is a mystery because it exceeds our powers of imagination and comprehension. But shouldn’t we expect the inner nature of God to be greater than our finite minds? Any reality that our minds can master is by definition inferior to our minds. The Supreme Being by definition has to be greater than our minds.

The glory of it all, is that this incomprehensible God chooses to know us, and to allow Himself to be known...(as much as we know) and to draw us up, in way, into the loving union He has had for eternity with Himself--in 3 Persons.

Praise to be our Lord & Master, Mediator & Friend, Jesus Christ, to Him be glory and honor, with the Father and the Holy Spirit, forever and ever!!!

21 posted on 05/30/2010 9:22:22 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: Salvation

One God, One Example, One Delivery.


22 posted on 05/30/2010 9:25:45 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: AnalogReigns
Christians have ALWAYS worshiped Jesus as God

That statement is so wrong that, depending on your motives, becomes a lie.

There have been controversies about this since Christ's death. John's epistles testify to that.

23 posted on 05/31/2010 7:32:59 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Eagle Eye
There have always been as many controversies about Jesus' divinity, as there have been unbelievers in Him. The definition of a "Christian" however are those who call Him Lord and God.

The statement stands: CHRISTIANS HAVE ALWAYS WORSHIPED JESUS AS GOD!

A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:26-28)

Ar·i·an·ism: n.
The doctrines of Arius, denying that Jesus was of the same substance as God and holding instead that he was only the highest of created beings, viewed as heretical by Christian churches.

24 posted on 05/31/2010 9:16:06 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns

E.W. Bullinger, trinitarian, demonstrates the John 20 that you cited is really a figure of speech called hendiadys, two words to mean one things.

Thomas was around when God Almighty spoke to Jesus’s followers and identified Jesus as His Son.

Trinitarianism- A form of multi-diety idolatry that is related to Old Testament baal worship. It is the worship of a false doctrine requiring claims of mysticism and the insane belief that one is really three, that God died and sits on his own right hand. It requires one to adhere to an amazingly inconsistent model that shifts with every challenge and cannot meet simply scriptural scrutiny. It also requires its adherents to answer questions with a question and fail to ever give an explanation of trinitarian inconsistencies.


25 posted on 05/31/2010 4:29:06 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Eagle Eye

Look buddy, the doctrine of God as holy trinity is as old as the New Testament—where God as Father, God as Son and God as the Holy Spirit is taught throughout.

The earliest summaries of biblical doctrine, including the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed clearly teach it.

EVERY Christian denomination, including, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, Lutheran, Anglican, Reformed, Presbyterian, Baptist (all kinds), Mennonite, Methodist, Moravian, Bible, Congregationalist, Assembly of God, Evangelical Free, independent Evangelical, etc. etc., regards God as one in substance, three in persons, as an essential to their beliefs. These groups would constitute well over 99% of those who call themselves “Christian” in the world today, and in history.

You want to deny God’s nature...OK, it’s a free country. Please don’t label yourself as a Christian though, as well over 99% of us find that totally dishonest.

A bit like calling yourself a “conservative” and supporting Obama.


26 posted on 05/31/2010 5:53:51 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (JESUS IS LORD!!!)
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To: AnalogReigns

Romans 10:9,10 is the standard for salvation.

Judging my standing with God is a sin.

Go repent. You have a lot of it to do.


27 posted on 05/31/2010 7:30:40 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Eagle Eye; NorthStarStateConservative
Steam is not water and water is not ice and ice is not steam.

Um, boy are you wrong. Steam is water, as is liquid water is water, and ice is water.

Fail.....

Try again.....

28 posted on 06/02/2010 11:24:51 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Eagle Eye
God is not Jesus, Jesus is not holy spirit, and Jesus is not God.

"Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am." -John 8:58

29 posted on 06/02/2010 11:30:48 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480; Eagle Eye
God is not Jesus, Jesus is not holy spirit, and Jesus is not God

More accurately: The Father is not Jesus; Jesus is not the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is not the Father; all three are God.
30 posted on 06/02/2010 11:36:54 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan; Eagle Eye

Well, in EE’s case, he also denies the divinity of Jesus and the truth of the Holy Trinity.


31 posted on 06/02/2010 11:38:22 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Salvation

The triple point of water


32 posted on 06/02/2010 12:18:00 PM PDT by ForAmerica (Christian Conservative Black Man!)
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To: aruanan

So God is three?

Or three are God?


33 posted on 06/02/2010 12:30:42 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Eagle Eye

One divine essence, one Godhead, three persons in it.


34 posted on 06/02/2010 12:36:35 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480

Based on what you posted you are saying that the Bible lies when is says that no man has seen God at any time.

If Jesus is God then no one saw him as God is invisible.

Please be so kind at to tell me which part of the Bible is wrong or a lie, ok?


35 posted on 06/02/2010 12:36:50 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Pyro7480

Three in one?


36 posted on 06/02/2010 12:37:20 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Eagle Eye

You’re forgetting that with God, all things are possible.


37 posted on 06/02/2010 12:40:53 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.

You say God is three in one; the Bible says CLEARLY and REPEATEDLY that God is one. Bolding is mine, not King James.

So tell me which parts of the Bible are wrong. The parts that say that there is one God or the parts that say that God is one? Or both?

I happen to believe that there is one God and God is one. And that there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Got a problem with that?

38 posted on 06/02/2010 12:43:05 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Eagle Eye

Meaning one Godhead. You have also failed to address my Scripture I quoted from earlier.


39 posted on 06/02/2010 12:45:16 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480
You’re forgetting that with God, all things are possible.

That is unscriptural and a lie!

God cannot be tempted with evil. Period. God cannot sin. It is impossible.

Some would say that God cannot violate freedom of will but I couldn't prove that from the Bible even though I personally believe it.

But wait...Jesus was tempted in all ways like we are!

So let's see, God cannot be tempted with evil yet Jesus was....sounds like God is not Jesus and Jesus is not God.

You’re forgetting that with God, all things are possible.

What a bunch of horse crap and chicken stuff cop out.

40 posted on 06/02/2010 12:47:08 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Eagle Eye
Jesus mediates between God and man through His Incarnation, a hypostatic union of divinity and humanity. John is clear on this.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

41 posted on 06/02/2010 12:47:14 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Eagle Eye

You don’t know your Bible: “And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren: Because no word shall be impossible with God.”


42 posted on 06/02/2010 12:48:32 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480

Interpretation must start with understanding clear verses before going to less clear or unclear verses.

You obviously do not understand that God is one as clearly stated, nor do you understand that God is invisible and that no man has seen him at any time.

You don’t understand that God’s only begotten son, Jesus Christ, is/was God’s visible representation on Earth. Jesus was/is clearly subordinate to God, his father.

Jesus taught that if one was unfaithful in small things then one would not be faithful in large things.

If you cannot understand the simple, clear verses then discussing less clear verses is a waste of time.


43 posted on 06/02/2010 12:51:31 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Pyro7480
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

That is exactly what I said, God cannot be tempted with evil.

...Because no word shall be impossible with God.”

Meaning that nothing that God has said (either directly of by his prophets) shall be unable to come to pass.

I think you owe me an apology but I have learned not to hold my breath when dealing with..ahem..."christians".

44 posted on 06/02/2010 12:55:04 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Eagle Eye
Jesus was/is clearly subordinate to God, his father.

In His human nature, but He and His Father are One, as He said in John 10:30, meaning they're one in their divinity.

Also, remember St. John's warning in 1 John 4:3: "And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world." By "dissolveth," he mean they that deny Him come in either His humanity or His divinity.

You are led by a spirit that is not of God.

45 posted on 06/02/2010 12:57:11 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Eagle Eye

I owe you no apology. You owe Christ an apology for “dissolving” Him.


46 posted on 06/02/2010 12:57:58 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

If that means what you say it means then the Bible is full of contradictions and is pretty much worthless for a basis for spiritual truth.

Fortunately I believe you to be wrong and the Bible correct. Jesus is God's son. God says so. Jesus says so.

But you disagree. Not my problem.

You can try all you want to convince me that Jesus is really not God's son but is really God. And you can try really, really hard that three is really one and that one really means three.

But it isn't going to work.

47 posted on 06/02/2010 12:59:18 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: Eagle Eye

You’re still conveniently ignoring at least two of the Scripture verses I cited, and grasping on to your straws.


48 posted on 06/02/2010 1:02:43 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: Eagle Eye; Pyro7480
from John 1: "...the Word was God....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."

This is plain language. The logic is as follows:

Word = God

The Word became flesh and dwelt amoung us. That means God became a man. John 1 also contains the statement that "the Word was with God". That means the Word that became flesh, that was God is the person of God before Jesus the man existed.

50 posted on 06/02/2010 4:16:13 PM PDT by spunkets
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