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To: Cronos
Yes, SCripture is God breathed, however St Paul tells us to stand fast to our traditions (God's Holy Tradition).

And you can in no way know what these "traditions" were.

With a proper context for this verse the meaning is made clear.

Obviously, Paul was not saying, ‘Hold to Scripture and some oral component.’ In context, his meaning is much simpler.

When you read the preceding verses, and take into account the context, Paul’s meaning is simple. Paul had preached the gospel to the Thessalonians in person.

He was now writing to them. He has just noted the gospel, and he is saying, ‘Hold to the body of teaching, i.e., the gospel, that I have delivered to you, both in person and by letter.’

The letter, of course, was what we call 1 Thessalonians. The content is the gospel. We are to hold to the faith, the gospel of Jesus Christ, which the Thessalonian believers were privileged to learn, at that unique time of apostolic ministry, both from an apostle (Paul), and from a letter directly from him.

your Word" i.e. God's Word --> as I keep repeating, that is not limited to ONLY scripture.

Offcourse at various times God's Word was first spoken before being written down.

Can you provide any quotes from the Oral Words of God that we know have not been written?

Merely ascribing an anachronistic definition onto the word 'tradition', any time you come across it in scripture, is hardly proof of anything.

In fact if you insist that Paul's "tradition" included purgatory and the marian doctrines, you are dead set against those like Newman who excuse the obvious lack of historical evidence for such doctrine by inventing his development theory.

1,011 posted on 06/09/2010 11:14:21 AM PDT by bkaycee
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To: bkaycee
If I ask you "What is the sure norm by which Christians know the teachings of Christ?"

you will answer SOLA scriptura (please correct me if this is a wrong assumption)

However, Paul advised Timothy to take as his norm the sound words that Paul spoke to him (2 Tim. 1:13)
13What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus. 14Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us
Timothy knew that even if a particular teaching was not written down, Christians were still expected to abide by it (2 Thess. 2:15)
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[a] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
and to defer to the authority of Church leaders (Heb. 13:17)
17Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.
. The only way a person could know what these unwritten binding traditions were was to keep their ear to the mouth of the Church. If the Church were merely a collection of saved individuals-none with any real authority over the others-then Scripture would not tout her as the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15)
14Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
whom we must listen to or be cut off (Matt: 18:17)
17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector


Nothing in scripture indicates what the canon of the New Testament should be, but this silence in no way hindered the Church from exercising the authority given to her by Christ (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:17-18) to decide the canon under the power of the Holy Spirit which still pervades and guides the Church

Keep in mind that if Scripture does not record an event, it does not follow that the event did not happen. Scripture does not record Paul or Peter's journey to Rome, and they were both martyred there while the Bible was still being written. With this in mind, it would be unscriptural and unreasonable to conclude that the dogma of Mary's Assumption is false because it is not mentioned explicitly in Scripture.

Epiphanius said in A.D. 377, "Let them search the scriptures. They will not find Mary's death; they will not find whether she died or did not die; they will not find whether she was buried or was not buried. More than that: John journeyed to Asia, yet nowhere do we read that he took the holy Virgin with him. Rather, Scripture is absolutely silent [on Mary's earthly end] because of the extraordinary nature of the prodigy, in order not to shock the minds of men. . . . Neither do I maintain stoutly that she died. . . .

"Did she die? We do not know. At all events, if she was buried, she had no carnal intercourse. . . . Or she remained alive, since nothing is impossible with God and he can do whatever he desires" (Panarion, haer. 78, nn. 10-11,23: G.C.S., 37, 461-462; 474).
1,016 posted on 06/10/2010 7:16:40 AM PDT by Cronos (Origen(200AD)"The Church received from theApostles the tradition of giving Baptism even to infants")
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To: bkaycee

Let’s step back and bit. If I may humbly ask you, what do you think The Church means by Purgatory?


1,017 posted on 06/10/2010 7:18:14 AM PDT by Cronos (Origen(200AD)"The Church received from theApostles the tradition of giving Baptism even to infants")
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