Posted on 06/14/2010 3:28:41 PM PDT by Ken4TA
Why do you jump from 8:3 to 14:4? What is the context dealing with? Your conclusion is not very valid.
We are in the church age at this present moment and then we will be in His millennial reign.
Yes, one could say that this is the "church" age, i.e., the age of God's chosen people, the ones "called out for His purpose"! This is also the last age before Christ returns and raises all the dead, rapturing (if I may use that term) the righteous raised along with the righteous living at that time - then the judgment of the raised unrighteous and the punishment to be served: the second death in the lake of fire. I realize that you won't accept that, but that's what the Bible tells us - and I don't believe Jesus, Peter and Paul were lying about it.
I did and accept it as it stands! Word for word! Jesus did not rebuke them for asking it. He didn't say that they misunderstood him. He didn't say that he was finished with Israel. He didn't say the Church will be the new Israel.
Jesus didn't say many things on that occasion. He didn't say He was waiting for various signs and news articles to be written. He didn't say they had to wait for the "millennium" (of whatever flavor) for the Kingdom to come. Concerning Israel, well, he said that their kingdom would be taken away from them and given to a nation that had faith - the "called out ones" from among the populace, or the "church". That "kingdom" is God's Kingdom, or the Kingdom of Heaven.
I'll take Jesus' word for it. How about you???
I'll take Jesus' word for it also. How about you!!!
Since I am a Christian I have been led to believe he was a child. I will further refer you to Rabbi Bob Alper (my favorite commedian)who I stole the joke from. Argue with the Rabbi. Shalom.
14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;(including the USA) and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 00193 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 00194 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 00195 14:5 And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee. 00196 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the light shall not be clear, [nor] dark: 00197 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light. 00198 14:8 And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 00199 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Perhaps, as a way of establishing a foundation on which to discuss the promise God made to Abraham, which of course would be unbreakable, one could ask a question of all. The question is this: Is the promise made to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 the same promise as that made to Eve in Genesis 3:15, albeit with greater detail? If some on this thread consider the two promises to be different, how are they materially different from each other? I do not see how any profitable discussion can go forward without resolving this simple but important question.
Neither will I. As far as what you quoted Zec. 14, well, the context doesn't bode well if related to the end of this last age. It seems to have happened in the past. Since Jesus' time, there is to be no more sacrifice for sins, for He died once for all times. Likewise, there is no need for the celebration of festivals, etc., for the keeping of feast days in a religious sense is not a part of the Good News of salvation.
So we missed the day of the Lord?
I'd say the promise made to Eve in Genesis 3:15 refers to Christ's coming. The promise made to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 advances the plan of God as pertains to Christ Jesus - and thusly, to our salvation through faith, just as the promise to Abraham was given by his faith that God was able to raise the dead.
HUH? Explain, please. What day is that?
The day of the Lord is the same as that great and terrible day when me will hid in the rock and the ground when men's hearts will melt. Yes Christ has done away with the sacrifice in this present age but the next age there will be memorial sacrifices unto God not for the covering of sin.
Where in the Bible do you find another "age" to come after the Bible tells us that we are in the "end of the ages"? And, where do you find that there will be "memorial sacrifices unto God" in a "next age"? Let us all in on the secret!!!
Here is the Mal quote 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he [is] like a refiner's fire, and like fullers ' soap: 00034 3:3 And he shall sit [as] a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. 00035 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
So, that means ...?
Are the two promises essentially the same promise or not, that is, the promise of a Savior who will undo the fall into sin? Or are they different in any way? It is important to establish this since this is where people begin to part ways theologically/biblically.
LG is discounting scripture to begin with, as God’s voice told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac.
No it is not. It is the Kingdom OF ISRAEL that will be RESTORED AGAIN. That is the question that was asked and the question that was answered.
Matthew 12:32: " ... it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, neither in the age to come".
and Ephesians 2:7: "That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace ...".
The article says:
“In that day (not the same day God made the original promise) Jehovah made a covenant
with Abraham, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto
the great river, the Euphrates” (Gen 15:18). This promise was completely fulfilled after
the Israelites returned from Egypt.
I pose the question. If the promise was “completely fulfilled”, then why is it that Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and others, more than a thousand years after the covenant was made with Abraham and more than seven hundred years after Joshua entered the promised land, speak of the return of the house of Judah and Israel to their “land”. The author leaves out a critical time gap from 931 BC during the reign of Solomon when the Kingdom of Solomon was split into the two houses and the dispersal of the house of Israel in 721 AD, until 70 AD when the remaining predominantly house of Judah was dispersed from the land. The two houses lost the inheritance due to idolatrous practices and are now in the process of returning to the land inheritance a second time. That is what redemption is -— the return to the land inheritance. It also occurs during a Jubilee year. The beginning of the seventh day Shabbat (mellinium) of rest here on planet earth.
Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isa 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
Jer 23:8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Blessings in your search for TRUTH
I know you won't be convinced by anything I say, but none of those verses you mentioned above say anything about sacrificial sacrifices during a future 1K years in a 1K Millennial Temple.
Here is the Mal quote 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he [is] like a refiner's fire, and like fullers ' soap: 00034 3:3 And he shall sit [as] a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. 00035 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
Again, you'll not be convinced by anything I may say, but this last attempt of yours, IMHO (and millions of others) these verses reference the first Advent of Christ and were conditional upon the acceptance of Him as the Christ. Yes, that is just one of a few interpretations that are aligned against millennial theories.
No it is not. It is the Kingdom OF ISRAEL that will be RESTORED AGAIN. That is the question that was asked and the question that was answered.
Negative! When Jesus said that the Kingdom would be taken away from them and given to another nation, that other nation is the "ekklesia" - i.e, what one calls the church: which is not "national" but worldwide. Jesus never said that the nation of Israel would be restored as a "kingdom" on this earth in a future age. The "New Jerusalem" is the whole body of Christians which are the "bride of Christ" mentioned in the book of Revelation: and sometimes mentioned as Israel figuratively.
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