Posted on 10/14/2010 7:07:18 PM PDT by The Ignorant Fisherman
Time is relative. We already know that velocity and strong gravitational forces change time. Who knows what other variables could effect the same. Thus, what took 6 literal days at the time of creation could appear to have taken billions of years from man’s current perspective.
Except Chapter 20 of Exodus.
God took billions of earth years to create the universe. Then when He had Moses write about it in Genesis, He excerpted his work. He said, “Hey, if it’s good enough for The Ignorant Fisherman, then by God it’s good enough for me.”
To Reformists, God engineered the fall. Thus, in their perspective, it necessarily falls back on God.
I respect my Reformist brethren, but I know they are wrong in this regard.
With all its conservation laws, I think the Universe is more like an accounting system than a watch.
This misses the point. The point is that with advent of the fall one should not be surprised that man is flawed in his physical make up. Man was corrputed both spiritually and physically by the curse engendered as a consequence of the fall.
But from a reformed perspective, it could not be a “consequence of the fall,” since it was pre-engineered.
Now, some of us believe that the fall was not pre-engineered, but that it was a possibility. Reformists believe that if more than one outcome was possible, that somehow makes God less sovereign. I disagree. And I realize that saved Christians are going to disagree on this and other things, such as the length of time that creation took. I accept that and love my reformed brethren. Thankfully entry into heaven doesn’t depend on passing a “final exam” other than that outlined by Christ Himself.
I knew someone would claim that what Moses penned in Exodus 20 would be used as the measurement of 'time'. The problem is in pointing to Exodus 20 as ones measurement of the days of creation is it requires one to ignore the previous instruction given by Moses.
Apparently God knew what some would point to as His time standard to which is why all those many days later He would have Peter explain in specifics exactly how long those days of creation were. IIPeter 3.
You really think that Moses did not teach these children the previous instruction from "In the beginning".... forward. Wonder how Moses explained Methuselah 969 years which is followed by in a few verses that God shortened the life span of any flesh to 120 years.
The children knew they could not 'see' God and their flesh would stay alive. What Exodus is, is the formation of a 'constitution' by which these now freed children were to live by, be successful, protected and blessed. And the 'days' of Exodus 20 applied to them as to what they were to 'remember' and obey.
It sure is interesting to observed how few things Moses penned in Exodus is still observed these days and yet men of God pluck out of context what is being said to the children in their time as definitive answer to what they apply it to mean completely disregarding the whole instruction.
That certainly doesn't follow. Opening of a door is a consequence of my turning the doorknob which was my intention in turning the knob in the first place. God intended the results of the fall he engineered. Thus, no reason to be surprised by man's physical corrpution.
I understand your disagreement with the reformed perspective and I am not engaging that debate here. We can disagree on that point and still be friends and fellow witnesses for Christ.
I see nothing in your post which refutes (or even attempts to refute) the clear position in Exodus 20 that creation was six 24 hour days. You merely dance around the point. The context could not be clearer or more on point - relating a 24 hour sabbath to the 24 hour days of creation.
Agreed. :-)
It’s a metaphor, not a geology lesson.
Mark 13:23 (Before one word of the New Testament got penned) Christ said "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
The Christ immediately quotes Isaiah 13:10 which then makes Isaiah's writings one and the same as the 'gospel'. All of what got penned is about looking forward as to what started all this flesh age so the rebels will ultimately get sorted out, and for that final generation of flesh born as to what to expect to have happen prior to and during and after the return of Christ... Now some of these that call themselves Christian like the parable of the ten virgins are not going to have enough 'oil' with them when that day arrives. The 'oil' is the WORD and some of them will be so ashamed they will pray for mountains to fall on them, and some will claim they did this and that and Christ is said to say to some of them I never knew you.
IF the foundation of Christ from "In the beginning...." is faulty and built upon deception and willing ignorance these children are going to be in a world of hurt.
None of us can know where we will be when that 'day' of the Lord comes, but the instruction is to 'warn' what is ahead as per what God had His chosen holy prophets to pen. Picking and choosing words here and there is not part of what is required to stand against the fiery darts of the devil.
God had Peter put into writing how long a day with Him is. I have no authority to refute Peter but to read with understanding how not to be willingly ignorant. It really bothers me when God says some of His children are 'sottish' (sottish means stupid) (Jeremiah 4:22) and willingly ignorant and while ignorance is not the sin, staying that way sure is not going to better my standing.
Those children that were brought out of Egypt are like preschoolers that needed to be taught the basic concept of who, what, where, when, why, and even how. You must ignore what is written up to and long after Exodus 20 to claim that is the definitive standard of time measurement for how long the days of creation literally were.
Struck an exposed nerve there ...
There is no doubt that Moses wrote and understood that he was describing the creation of the world in regular 24 hour days.
And there was evening and morning ... the first day ...
And there was evening and morning ... the second day ...
You cannot claim he meant something else without committing intellectual and grammatical suicide. If you read the words you cannot come to any other conclusion than Moses meant 24 hour days.
It is an entirely different question as to whether he was correct.
Whys that ?
Why is that a requirement? What theological problem does not knowing when he fell present a young earth creationist? He fell before his appearance in the garden ... does it have to be more complicated than that?
That's not what Peter's statment means at all. Peter was explaining why Christ's return was taking longer than some expected and Peter was pointing out how time is relative to God. Under you analysis Peter would have believed that Christ was resurrected three thousand years after his crucifixion. Under your analysis when God told Jeramiah that the Jewish exile would last 70 years he really meant 25.5 million years.
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