Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
Truly stands out among the rest, I agree.
Old Reggie: Yes
And the fact that "thou art Peter" and "on this rock I will build my Church" are what, random reminder who Jesus was talking to in case St. Peter forgot what his given name was?
“They were demonstrably not Protestant because Protestantism believes that salvation is through faith alone, and the scripture says the exact opposite.”
The problem with that statement is when Paul is writing to Jewish believers who taught that salvation is through faith plus works, he corrected them with the following,
Rom. 9:30-32, “What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.”
Rom. 10:2-4, “For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
Rom. 10:8-13 “The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
It is truly meet and right to bless you, O Theotokos, Ever-blessed and most-pure mother of our God. More honourable than the Cherubim, And beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, Who without corruption gave birth to God the Word, True Theotokos: we magnify you"
Yes, from the Divine Liturgy. This is the famous Theotokion called "Axion Estin" which we chant every Sunday just after the consecration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEHJY0T9RsQ&feature=related
Catholics don't believe the Word themselves.
When the Word says "you are saved by grace through faith " (Ephesians 2, slight paraphrase) or *Abstain from blood* (Acts 15), *by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified* (Romans 3) they don't believe that.
Sin is disobeying God's Law, not the mandates of a man-made religion.
And the RCC claiming that it has authority given by God to decide what is and is not sin is blasphemy.
The *church* can't just make up rules and then claim that disobeying them is a sin. What a corruption of the teachings of Jesus. What a hideous control tactic. Claim authority from God to determine who they let into heaven and who stays out and then threatening anyone who doesn't comply with eternal damnation of their soul.
The biggest irony is that Catholics are the first ones to shriek about how Protestants can't say who is saved and who is not and not only do Catholics do the self-same thing, but actually go on to tell others that they not only have the power to say who is saved and who isn't, but they even claim the POWER to determine who gets in and who doesn't.
They put themselves in the position of telling God what to do.
What an abomination before God.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That probably explains most of Catholic church history.
Both Josephus and the Talmud acknowledge that the Torah was translated by the Jewish scholars into Greek in the 3rd century BC. Jewish Encyclopedia further writes:
No serious source will doubt or expressly deny the existence of the Septuagint before Christ.
In his human nature, yes.
To show the duplicity of dismissing one myth and believeing another.
You are aware the story of the Septuagint LXX, composed by 70-72 scholars, is a fable
I am aware of your claim that it ism which is itself a myth.
Other of the posters are not aware of this.
Mind reading?
ism = is,
annalex bloviated:
“There is no trace of Protestant distinctives (faith alone, Bible alone) in any patristic writing, including the Holy Scripture itself.”
No, not a trace, not a single, solitary trace, none whatsoever, nope.
The Church is necessary for salvation, yet it by itself does not save. Repentence is necessary for salvation, yet if by itself does not save. Belief in the Lord is necessary for salvation, yet it by itself does not save.
Forest Keeper asked about that part of the Creed that speaks of Christ’s descent into hell:
“Could there be any room on this issue?... How do you see it?”
Dear FK, let’s first of all remember that the Creed (a word derived from the Latin “credo,” a verb that means, “I believe,” the first word of the Creed, or at least the Latin translation thereof), whether Apostles’, Nicene or Athanasian is intended to teach the truth about God and thereby to proclaim what God has done to save man. In other words, the Creed is fundamentally Gospel, good news, as opposed to being Law, that which we are to do but haven’t. It should be read in that light, just as the ten Commandments are fundamentally Law and not Gospel, and should be read in that light.
Regarding Christ’s descent into hell the best place to go for what Lutherans believe is the Book of Concord of 1580 (well worth the price!). There in the Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, Article IX, it reads in full (it’s a very short article):
“Different explanations of the article on Christ’s descent into hell have been discovered among some of our theologians just among the ancient teachers of the Christian church. Hence we let matters rest on the simple statement of our Christian Creed, to which Dr. Luther directs us in the sermon that he held in the castle at Torgau in the year 1533, “I believe in the Lord Christ, God’s Son, who died, was buried, and descended into hell.” Herein the burial and the descent into hell are differentiated as distinct articles, and we simply believe that after the burial the entire person, God and man, descended into hell, conquered the devil, destroyed hell’s power, and took from the devil all his might. We are not to concern ourselves with exalted and acute speculations about how this occurred. With our reason and five senses this article cannot be comprehended any more that the preceding one, how Christ has been made to sit at the right hand of the of the almighty power and majesty of God (note: what is being referred to is the preceding Article VIII of the Formula of Concord). We must only believe and cling to the Word. Then we shall retain the heart of this article and derive from it the comfort that neither hell nor the devil can take us or any believe in Christ captive or harm us.”
In other words, and briefly, I would explain it this way in this week wherein we observed the 69th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor when all the battleships of the U.S. Pacific Fleet were sunk or seriously damaged. Why did the U.S. fasten upon the idea of signing the instrument of Japan’s surrender in Tokyo harbor on board the battleship U.S.S. Missouri? To show in a most graphic and irrefutable way to the Japanese people, the American people, and the people of the world who won. Here was another U.S. battleship sitting in the midst not of Pearl Harbor but Tokyo harbor, untouched and untouchable, from whence it would safely sail out and home. What clearer picture could be offered to the world that had seen all the terrible photos of Pearl Harbor from four years previous that Japan lost and the war is over?
That hell could not hold the Christ, the Firstborn among many brethren, is an immense comfort to all who will follow Him in the faith, that death and hell cannot hold one who belongs to Christ. They are powerless before Him.
The Scripture verses that speak to this, chiefly 1 Peter 3:18-19 and Colossians 2:15, taken together, point at this as the true understanding. What you stated in your post is essentially the Roman Catholic position (I don’t know if you know this). See the Catechism of the Catholic Church, American Edition, pp. 164, paragraph 633. On this, please note that in the same volume, paragraph 635, footnote 484, that John 5:25 is cited as proof that Christ preached the “Good News” to those in this supposedly (not!) intermediate place (wherein is the so-called limbus patrum). This is a complete misapplication of John 5:25, as an examination of that context will show. Jesus was not there speaking of the physically dead, but was speaking to His audience, the Jews (i.e. Pharisees), who were dead in trespasses and sins (i.e. unbelief).
Hopefully, this pretty much answered your question.
So, are you then saying that the Catholic Church does not really believe what it says about its role in salvation? I have had this discussion with other Catholics, and their argument has usually been along the lines of not wanting to condemn the "poor savage in the deepest, darkest jungle" or those they imagine cannot possibly ever hear of the truth about Christ. It then boils down to, "Well, if they are really good people, then God will be merciful and let them into heaven." Yet we know several things that dispute these ideas.
First, and foremost, is the truth that "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." (Rom. 3:23) We also know that, "The wages of sin is death." (Rom. 6:23) , "Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." (Lev. 17:11). Jesus, himself, as I quoted in an earlier post - which was in no way intended to presume Lera could not defend her own position (but I'm sure you knew that, right?). He said he was THE way, THE truth, and THE life, and NO ONE came to the Father BUT through him (John 14:6). So unless you either believe Jesus lied, or was ignorant, you must accept his words as the truth.
I can hear the wheels turning over the internet, "Then HOW can God condemn someone who has no way of ever hearing that?". This presumes a number of things, not the least is placing a limit on the power of the Holy Spirit in this world of whom it is said "He (the Holy Spirit), when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment" (John 16:8). We know that the spirit of God has always been in the world drawing all people to God who search for truth and we cannot limit God by saying he will ignore the heart that diligently seeks him. I trust that God, who loves people more than I can ever imagine and who desires for all to be saved, will get the truth to those who want it. There are numerous instances given in the Bible of people from far away lands coming to faith in the Messiah both from the OT and the NT.
There are NO other paths to salvation and God would be made a liar if he saves some through Christ and others because they are "good" and would believe if they only heard it. That is Satan's lie. Don't limit God.
You: No, not a trace, not a single, solitary trace, none whatsoever, nope.
Well then, Annalex is not reading the Holy Bible. He could not have said what he did if he really has read the Holy Scriptures. I spent a good deal of time as have many others including you, Belteshazzar, proving repeatedly that Scripture most certainly does teach those very concepts. Sadly, some say they believe Scripture, but we then find they are highly selective in what parts they accept as truth and then only through their religion's own cleverly devised filter. And, of course, that is the very thing we are accused of doing. Funny thing is, we can actually read the verses for ourselves and, just WOW, words in context mean what they say! I kinda think that is how our Lord wanted it.
I have looked at the text and found there is no deception...in fact clarification seems moreso than not when compared to the Catholic take, which more often then not one has to separate the "traditions" practiced in order to determine if or not there is actual belief in the topic discussed or simply abiding by mans written opinions. As for becoming a Catholic...that simply isn't going to happen annalex, though I know your journey there took you thru some bad experiences in former churches that steered you wrongfully...and sorry you experienced the suffering you did. So I can understand you attraction to the Catholic church even though I disagree with much about their practices. So I am satisfied in Christ and the church of my choosing. I like the truth as Christ presents it...not as the traditions of men dictate......but thank you for the invitation...however I must decline for Christ's sake.
Yes. Creation, for example, is the work of the Father in which we did not cooperate.
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