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A Woman And An Angel
http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2010/12/19/the-sign-of-the-swaddling-clothes/ ^ | 12-19-10 | Bill Randles

Posted on 12/20/2010 2:44:21 PM PST by pastorbillrandles

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?( Genesis 3:1-2)

The Angel approached the couple in the garden very calmly, and in an attractive form. “Eve, has God really forbidden you to eat of all of the trees of the garden?” By exaggerating the prohibition placed upon the couple, the serpent was probing, looking for any indication of a rift between they and God.

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.(Genesis 3:3)

The Woman didn’t accept the premise that all of the trees were forbidden, the serpent knew she wouldn’t go that far. But she did exaggerate the prohibition of God, when she said, “We can’t touch the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden.“

Aha! There it is! Now the woman is ready to hear the Word of God openly denied!

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.(Genesis 3:4-5)

Exploiting the opening, the serpent wasted no time, slandering the One who had placed the couple in the garden of delights. Maximizing the prohibition, and minimizing the penalty- “You shall not surely die”- he captured the couple’s imagination, they believed the lie, and acted on it.

Millenia of suffering, pain, death, alienation and misery hung on the few seconds of thought described in the next verse. She considered the “word” of the serpent, and what this ‘revelation’ could do for herself. And she stretched out her hand towards the fruit…

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.(Genesis 3:6)

Long ,weary centuries later, another Angel approached another woman, a young Jewish virgin, in the Galilee, on the edge of the Roman Empire, in the hamlet of Nazareth.

And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.(Luke 1:26-28)

A Holy Angel approached a peasant girl. She happened to have been engaged to a carpenter, together they would keep a pious home, for they were devout Jews. “Highly favored? The Lord is with me? I am blessed among women?” What could these strange greetings possibly mean?

Then came the most shocking words;

And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.( Luke 1:30-34)

As a pious Jew ,Mary knew, as all devout Jews knew of the promise of God to her ancestor David, that God would give him a greater Son who would one day reign forever! But she was to be the mother of this Son?

Almost unbelievable! Indeed Mary’s family claimed descent from the line of King David, as did hundreds of thousands of others in the tribe of Judah. Nothing about her life and family spoke of royalty, and furthermore, the royal line of David had long been cut off, the scepter had indeed departed from Judah years earlier.

Oh and one other thing, how was this to come to pass? Would Joseph be the father of this chosen one?

Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.(Luke 1:34-35)

The child would be virgin born, truly the Son of God, not in the sense that David and those Sons of David who followed were “Sons of God” , as regents of Israel. This child will be The Son of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit, and without the agency of man, a “Holy Thing would be born” of her.

The woman had asked a question of the angel and she had received an answer. An incredible answer, with huge implications for a young ,pious Jewess in a small town. A virgin birth? What will people think? What will Joseph think? She realized that at best, a lifetime of reproach and undeserved shame awaited her decision. But she was highly favored for God wanted to use her…

In that few seconds of agonizing decision, Mary counted the cost. Then said to the Angel and to God -

… Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.(Luke 1:38)

One woman believed an Angel and said to God, “let my will be done,not Thine”. “I do what I want with my body” and trampled underfoot true love, loyalty, and faith.

The other woman believed an Angel of God and said to Him, “Not my will but thine be done, I yield all, even my body to you, even if it means bearing te reproach of Christ”.

Merry Christmas everybody!


TOPICS: History; Moral Issues; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: eve; garden; mary; stable

1 posted on 12/20/2010 2:44:24 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles

Excellent, dear brother. Excellent.

God bless you and your ministry in exalting and glorifying the Lamb of God!


2 posted on 12/20/2010 2:54:21 PM PST by Arlis (- Virginia loghome/woods-dweller/Jesus lovin'/Bible-totin'/"gun-clinger")
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To: pastorbillrandles
The Angel approached the couple in the garden very calmly, and in an attractive form

No offense, but just so to not unintentionally slander the good angelic beings of God, might I suggest you alter that to "The Fallen Angel Satan, in the form of a serpent, approached the woman Eve". Since there are many, amazingly, in everyday life who know very little about the Scripture.
3 posted on 12/20/2010 2:59:19 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: pastorbillrandles

Merry Christmas to you and yours. God Bless the work you do.

Now I can go back and read the story.


4 posted on 12/20/2010 3:06:44 PM PST by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: F15Eagle
>>>The Angel approached the couple in the garden very calmly, and in an attractive form>>>

That is not what is written in my bible, just change a word here and there, no disrepects intended, but that is what the serpent did, just change a word here and there...

Merry Christmas...GG

5 posted on 12/20/2010 3:33:27 PM PST by goat granny (Great dad's are a blessing to son's but more so to daughters...)
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To: goat granny

He’s not called an angel in the garden account in Genesis either.

But it is obviously Satan.


6 posted on 12/20/2010 3:45:08 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%203&version=KJV

Genesis 3 (King James Version)

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

20And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


7 posted on 12/20/2010 3:47:01 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: goat granny

wait a minute goat granny- are you accusing me of doing what the serpent did? Do you deny that the serpent in the garden was none other than the fallen Angel Lucifer? You may not have intendd any disrspect, but you couldn’t be more disrespectful accusing me of doing wht the serpent did, when all I am doing is making a valid biblical point about the parallell between Eve and Mary- both of whom spoke to Angels, one fallen(which was obvious in my post) and one unfallen- you may not appreciate the way I have communicated it, but don’t you think comparing me to the serpent is a cheap shot? I forgive you GG


8 posted on 12/20/2010 5:02:35 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
I did not compare you to satan, I compared what you wrote, that differs from scripture says....My complaint is what you said and how you said it....There is quite a difference to say the angel in the garden was *attractive* when scripture calls him a serpent.

An if I am remembering correctly, the serpent was cursed to crawl on its belly....(I may not be quite correct on this as I am going by memory).

You as a pastor should know that. And I deny nothing I am remarking on what you wrote and how you worded it..

A valid biblical point does not need to make up something that is not scripturally correct..

Merry Christmas....and if you feel better forgiving me for pointing out your error, thats fine with me...

9 posted on 12/20/2010 7:02:17 PM PST by goat granny (Great dad's are a blessing to son's but more so to daughters...)
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To: F15Eagle
I do know a little scripture and I know it was the tempter that was in the garden, the father of all lies...satan, lucifer, and many other names that this creature goes by..

But in Genesis, unless I am mistaken, he was never called attractive...so you and I agree on both points...

10 posted on 12/20/2010 7:06:07 PM PST by goat granny (Great dad's are a blessing to son's but more so to daughters...)
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To: pastorbillrandles

well, at that point he was no longer an angel..he had morphed into Satan...I do not believe the bible refers to him as angel in the garden, does it? Small things do matter.


11 posted on 12/20/2010 7:11:56 PM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: goat granny
Nice GG- its not me, you insist that it is what I write that is Satanic- thanks for the clarification- I suppose you think Paul was Satanic- he called Satan an "Angel of light"- And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.2 Cor 11 Also I don't forgive you to "feel better"- I forgive you ( of your cheap shot ) because I am a Christian-
12 posted on 12/20/2010 7:18:34 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: fabian

Fabian... Lucifer is still an Angel, the Bible refers to “the Angels that sinned” Job 1 has Satan appearing at an assembly of Angels, Paul in 2 Cor 11 refers to Satan as one who appears as an Angel of light, Galatians 1 refers to Angels bringing another gospel. The Bible reveals that the serpent in the garden is none other than the fallen Angel-Lucifer-

Revelation 12:7 talks about the Dragon and his angels
Matthew 25 tells us that Hell was made for the Devil and his Angels...
I can’t figure out why this is such a problem...


13 posted on 12/20/2010 7:26:21 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
I didn't know Paul was in the garden of Eden, so what Paul said is not relevant to this article...

Of course I have read that he has been called an Angel of Light, but your post was about Adam and Eve and the serpent. I don't think satan would dare to appear in God's garden as an angel of light so again not relevant.....

I know some people that love the idea of serpents (not the religious one) Movies are made about them and books are written about them, but if your going to tell the story of Genesis, try sticking to scripture for your homily.

You are bringing in other scripture that is not relevant to the Genesis story....but if your a pastor, I hope those in your church are better at scripture than you...sorry, but that is jmho..

Young children in Sunday school are not told such false stories, nor are those in Catechism.

As a child I went to Sunday school in a Lutheran Church and had private instructions before marriage in the Catholic Faith..

14 posted on 12/20/2010 8:29:48 PM PST by goat granny (Great dad's are a blessing to son's but more so to daughters...)
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To: pastorbillrandles

okay...did not realize that! Thanks.


15 posted on 12/20/2010 9:07:26 PM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: goat granny
Granny- Paul was the Lord's apostle, he was talking about the whathappened in the garden of Eden, in the chapter I cited ...2 Cor 11 vs 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. All scripture is relevant to other scripture- Thanks for your "humble opinion" but as you yourself admitted, your knowledge of scripture is limited- lets just agree to disagree -
16 posted on 12/20/2010 9:08:39 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: fabian

Hey we are all learning- merry christmas


17 posted on 12/20/2010 9:10:00 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
Just one question again.

3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. >>>>>

In debate one must stick to the subject.....Your use of the word, satan as being an attractive angel in the Genesis story. You are totally wrong and by the quote of Paul that you use, he doesn't say that the serpent was an attractive angel...

We disagree, but your stubborn refusal to say you misquoted scripture makes you less than humble and will turn into a pretzel to say you are right in what you write..

Personally I don't care if you misquote scripture, but as a pastor you should choose your story's carefully and quote scripture correctly....but that is between you and God...so I agree, we disagree on what you stated...

18 posted on 12/20/2010 9:45:24 PM PST by goat granny (Great dad's are a blessing to son's but more so to daughters...)
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To: goat granny

Granny why do you want to insult and falsly accuse me of twisting scripture?
I grant that you don’t understand the scriptural analogy between Eve and Mary, but you don’t have to post publically that I am doing with scripture,what Satan did!
Neither do you have to distort what I am saying out of pride and refusal to admit you are wrong.
I have already quoted from 2 Cor 11 where Paul states that Satan poses as an Angel of Light, then I showed you from the same chapter that Paul used Genesis three, the account of Satan,Adam and Eve as areference. You are being obtuse, for some reason you want to establish that I have misquoted scripture, when I haven’t I have stuck to the subject, See for yourself 2 Cor 11:3-14- I am not stubborn, I fear God and would never want to misquote scripture-
You said,”You are totally wrong”- but cannot tell me how, without misrepresenting what I have been saying and insulting me-

BTW what was your question?


19 posted on 12/20/2010 10:22:11 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
I grant that you don’t understand the scriptural analogy between Eve and Mary, but you don’t have to post publically that I am doing with scripture,what Satan did!>>>>

I said you misquoted scripture in your Genesis story....

Again you say I don't understand the analogy between Eve and Mary, you are wrong in that judgment...being well versed in Catholic teaching and dogma...

When we debate what was written in Genesis, I state and believe you misquoted scripture and if you reread Genesis you will also see that...

When debating Genesis, the subject is just that Genesis, not other subjects within the bible...In other words, I believe that one should stick to the point...

This is important to you so I am sorry if I offended you, but I disagree with what you stated....as I said, I had no intention to offend, but you never did explain why you decided to change the scripture in Genesis....

I hope this puts an end to the discussion, as we have no point of agreement on the Genesis story...

And I hope the Lord bless's you in your ministry...

20 posted on 12/20/2010 10:41:55 PM PST by goat granny (Great dad's are a blessing to son's but more so to daughters...)
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To: F15Eagle
No offense, but just so to not unintentionally slander the good angelic beings of God, might I suggest you alter that to "The Fallen Angel Satan, in the form of a serpent, approached the woman Eve". Since there are many, amazingly, in everyday life who know very little about the Scripture.

Ahh, but bear in mind; Satan was the smartest, best looking of all of God's created Angels, and, Satan wasn't sentenced to crawl on the ground til after the fall, and, Moses wrote the Book of Genesis about 1500 years after the Creation had taken place...

Could be that Satan appeared to Eve as a Rock Star compared to her farmboy, Adam...

21 posted on 12/21/2010 9:14:01 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: goat granny; pastorbillrandles
I didn't know Paul was in the garden of Eden, so what Paul said is not relevant to this article...

Sounds like a consistent dispensationalist.

22 posted on 12/21/2010 11:16:01 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: topcat54

Actually she says she is a Catholic


23 posted on 12/21/2010 1:10:27 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
Actually she says she is a Catholic

A dispensational catholic? I’ve seen stranger.

24 posted on 12/21/2010 1:17:49 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: topcat54

I have no idea, but because of the above, i understand first hand the lack of Bible Knowledge


25 posted on 12/21/2010 1:34:52 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: Iscool

Satan fell before the creation of the Earth. That’s why he is already the tempter before the Garden. The crucifixion of Christ was determined before the foundations of the Earth were ever laid.

Satan wasn’t sentenced to crawl on the ground; the serpent which allowed itself to be used by him was. That’s why, to this day, snakes are still crawling on the ground.


26 posted on 12/21/2010 1:59:57 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: pastorbillrandles; TopCat
Sorry wrong again, I said I had instructions before marriage on being a Catholic...that was in 1958...I am not a Catholic any more, I am not a Mormon (been accused of that also), I am not a Jew....I don't even know what a consistent dispensationalist is. Whole lot of no nothings about me going on here and all I was debating is what the good pastor said about his genesis story....

The bible I have read multiple times...the pastor is just plain wrong on his genesis story so I guess he never really read it...don't know what topcat is either, but won't put him in any religious category. I won't put you, pastor in any specific religious sect either....

You never answered my question pastor about why you changed the genesis story from scripture to your opinion...

But then again, those that have read the bible know your error. Those that have not, they should, Thats how you can tell those that deviate from scripture to those that don't...

I will paraphrase this,>> but those that teach what is not in scripture are to be shunned (my phasing) That is the teachings of the New Testament...but unlike your story in genesis, I state I am paraphrasing and not quoting scripture exactly, don't care to look it up just to carry on this debate...Merry Christmas...

PS since you wrote**Actually she says she is a Catholic**, I understand you do make assumptions and have a comprehension problem with what I said...and that is probably why your Genesis story is in error..

27 posted on 12/21/2010 2:12:53 PM PST by goat granny (Great dad's are a blessing to son's but more so to daughters...)
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To: F15Eagle; Iscool
Satan fell before the creation of the Earth.

Where does the Bible teach that Satan was even created before the earth? God created everything (including angels everything) in the space of six days and all very good. The earth was created on the first day. Your comment does make any sense. There was no sin in God’s creation prior to the Fall. It can be logically deduced therefore that Satan fell with the temptation of Adam and Eve.

28 posted on 12/21/2010 2:38:21 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: topcat54

“It can be logically deduced therefore that Satan fell with the temptation of Adam and Eve.”

Debating with you is usually useless, due to your opinions but the Crucifixion of Christ was planned before the foundations of the Earth. You don’t need a Redeemer if the Tempter / Adversary isn’t present.

You can’t logically deduce that Satan only fell in the Garden. It is just your opinion.

However, it can be fairly argued that God in His foreknowledge knew mankind would fall and already planned for a Messiah before the foundation of the Earth.


29 posted on 12/21/2010 2:47:43 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: topcat54

A couple more points, just for fun.

Now we’re told that the stars (apparently physical bodies, because the previous reference is to light, apparently the Sun and Moon) are created in Genesis 1.

And in Revelation, Satan drags a third of the stars down with him. This must be metaphorically referring to (those becoming) fallen angels.

The Book of Job says the sons of God shouted for joy and this is given in the verses referencing the foundation of the world.

Angels (in various forms) minister not only to humans, but also to God. The seraphim and cherubim if memory serves. Would they have existed from ancient times, even before the Earth?


30 posted on 12/21/2010 2:58:58 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: pastorbillrandles

I think it was God Himself that tempted Eve in the Garden, in that process making man and woman human, for good and for evil. He says as much in Isaiah 45:7.

As evil ¨evolves¨ however, it´s easy to see how one could develop a scapegoat for it.


31 posted on 12/21/2010 3:04:56 PM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug

“I think it was God Himself that tempted Eve in the Garden”

Yikes, try again.

James 1:13 KJV

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:


32 posted on 12/21/2010 3:08:52 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: goat granny

;-D


33 posted on 12/21/2010 3:16:59 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: goat granny

Dear Goat Granny- everything I said in that article is scriptural. I didn’t change the Genesis story, I did answer your question, by citing no less than Paul the Apostle, who called the serpent in Genesis 3 an Angel of light.Paul, the Lord’s apostle would have better grasp of scripture than you or I. I see no profit in this debate when all you want to do is mischaracterize my statements, and insult me. If publically insisting that I twisted the scripture gives you some kind of satisfaction, go ahead, the Lord knows all about both of us. Once again, may God bless and help both of us-


34 posted on 12/21/2010 4:13:34 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: F15Eagle

I do agree, God does tempt any man with evil. Presenting to the couple a limited free choice is what God did for Adam and Eve.


35 posted on 12/21/2010 4:17:37 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles

It is written that God may test, not that God tempts...one tempts to lead to evil. One may test to prove your faith..God also says to test him. One of the prophets of old did put God to the test with a sheepskin....but you’ll have to look it up yourself....I don’t do others research..:O)


36 posted on 12/21/2010 5:37:52 PM PST by goat granny (Great dad's are a blessing to son's but more so to daughters...)
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To: F15Eagle
The Book of Job says the sons of God shouted for joy and this is given in the verses referencing the foundation of the world.

The foundation of the world is still the 6 days of creation ala Genesis 1. What is preventing the angels from being created in the very act of praising God for creation?

37 posted on 12/21/2010 5:53:45 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: F15Eagle

Isaiah 45:7.

Certainly no disrespect intended, though I believe that Satan undercuts monotheism.

Can you give any example of Satan outside, or before human existence? Conversely, I think can give several examples for God in existence.

I should say I´m not Christian, but it forms much of my training.

Deuteronomy 6:4


38 posted on 12/21/2010 5:56:45 PM PST by onedoug
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To: topcat54

Well, neither of us can present definitive Scripture for either position.

Regardless, it is irrelevant in the scope of things. Satan tempted Eve, she gave the fruit to Adam, and we all likewise sinned against God, in our own ways.

And the Messiah was born that taketh away the sin of the world. Unfortunately, most reject the Free Gift.


39 posted on 12/21/2010 5:58:43 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: onedoug

As I replied (later) it’s not provable either way from the Bible; at least in a straightforward sense.

Nonetheless, God did not tempt Eve.

However, God, by His Law, makes it clear that we are all transgressors; i.e. guilty of breaking His Law. By our free will we have chosen to do so.

It really doesn’t matter when Satan came into existence, nor organized his rebellion against the God of Israel. What matters is he as the Deceiver has beguiled all of us and revealed our sin nature.

For Satan, his fate is sealed. You and I are offered an alternative by the Sacrifice of Christ and His Gift (John 3:17-18). I choose to believe Jesus is the Messiah of God and that God raised Him from the dead.


40 posted on 12/21/2010 6:05:16 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: F15Eagle
Debating with you is usually useless, due to your opinions but the Crucifixion of Christ was planned before the foundations of the Earth.

God is not like men. What He wills He does and all perfectly. He is not the fickle ineffective god of modern evangelicalism.

When did sin enter creation, according to the Bible?

argued that God in His foreknowledge knew mankind

God foreknew it because He brings all things to pass. The determined purpose and foreknowledge of God go together (Acts 2:23). A fickle god cannot be certain of anything.

41 posted on 12/21/2010 6:08:12 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: topcat54

Are you saying the Crucifixion of Christ was NOT planned before the foundations of the Earth?


42 posted on 12/21/2010 6:18:38 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: pastorbillrandles

I goofed- I meant to say God does NOT Tempt any man to do evil, I just noticed that, my bad!


43 posted on 12/21/2010 7:16:06 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
all you want to do

Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

44 posted on 12/21/2010 7:26:53 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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