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To: 1010RD; SZonian
"The Christian expectation is apostasy at some point and restoration. That's the story of the Bible.

Nope - that is NOT the Christian expectation 10 - it may be yours, but you fail epically.

In Noah's day you had universal apostasy.

Except for Noah and his family - hence NOT universal. Yawn, your repetition if boring 10.

Josiah

Time wasn't UNIVERSAL apostasy either as there were still many who believed. Tsk, tsk, stupidity is doing the same thing over and over, as you are here, and expecting the same results. Read your bible

Yes, definitions are important - however the presence of INDIVIDUAL apostasy does not equal the complete, total and universal apostasy your mormon prophets claimed were in existence prior to smith's scam operation 10.

On further research #1, #2 and #3 have also occurred. The closing of scriptures is a refutation of further revelation from God.

LOL, sorry 10, repeating what your echo chamber sez doesn't prove a total, complete and universal apostasy existed in Christianity.

But your last commentary is worth refuting in detail. What 'PROOF' do we have that this 'further revelation from God' (which ever one that may be in mormondom) is a TRUE revelation from God. Your whole testimony hinges on a subjective FEELING that smith was a prophet. Facts are a pesky thing to such a dogmatically adhered to 'faith'. Every aspect of smith's life shouts that he was a false prophet. That is the judgement OF scripture 10. Every facet of the bom story has been shown to be false - it comes up empty every time and not a single proven artifact or discovery in the americas to support it. How about all the different first vision stories 10 - smith contradicts himself multiple times over.

Fact is, just like there never was a complete, total and universal apostasy of Christianity - this supposed 'continuing' revelation is shown to be fraudulent as well.

The Christian expectation should be the opposite. There isn't any Biblical passage that indicates revelation or scripture is closed.God is sovereign, not the Bible.

No, history shows otherwise - many heretical sects came up because they had their own 'revelations'. But then you are filtering your understanding through the peepstone of mormonism. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would bring to REMEMBRANCE that which he HAD (past tense) taught them. The Bereans didn't look to the teachings of Paul to verify his message - they went to the existing scriptures - the OT. There is nothing that the bom can add to the message of the Bible. But the message of MORMONISM is repudiated by the Bible at every turn.

There are no ordinances without authority and most ordinances have been abandoned by "Christians".

LOL, except where those 'ordinances' never existed in Christianity to begin with.

Roberts is wrong as are you. The gates of hell didn't prevail against the Church and Christ was true to His promise to never leave or forsake His church at any stage of its existence. Your regurgitation of Roberts fails when it strikes that pesky fact of history.

Smith was a false prophet, the bom is a false witness and mormonism is a false religion, facts that I can testify to according to the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ preserved for us in the Bible.

535 posted on 01/18/2011 4:42:55 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla; SZonian
Apostasy is the Christian expectation, although it might not be yours. 2 Thessalonians 1:1 & 3 "Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him....Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction."

The Greek is fascinating, particularly "the great rebellion" which is apostasia: a defection from truth.

This must be among only those who profess to be Christians otherwise it doesn't make sense as the world has revolted against God from the beginning. Jesus came to correct the Jews, the Hebrew remnant, yet the "falling away" or apostasy was to come later and be among the Christians.

Here's Websters (1913/1828): An abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed; a total desertion of departure from one's faith, principles, or party; esp., the renunciation of a religious faith; as, Julian's apostasy from Christianity. But, you likely know this already.

So if the Bible and its teachings are ignored, the fervent Christians deny the need for ordinations and authority or lose said authority to act what would you call that? Who can baptize and if no one why baptize, it's just symbolic anyway, right?

"No need for order or authority the Church is just all of us anyway." Nonsense, absolute nonsense.

It flies in the face of all our Lord and Master taught: 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

PS it isn't the gates of "hell" that won't prevail that won't prevail against the Church, but Hades - the holding place of the dead. Please do the research, be open minded and avoid eisegesis. The Bible doesn't say what you want to believe it does.

For instance Josiah became king at age 8 and ruled in righteousness and restored the temple ordinances which had been utterly lost.

537 posted on 01/18/2011 5:28:30 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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