[PART FOUR] The Flurry of Wings: Deceived By Angels

The Moody Church ^ | Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer

[wmfights]

If God knows ahead of time at some point who is going to ultimately accept Christ (I am deliberately avoiding the Arminian-Calvinist debate about the details) then God can send angels to help those people while they are still unbelievers without introducing anything not already stated in his Word.

This may well be the explanation for Angels going to the Shepherds to announce the birth of Jesus Christ, or the example noted by Harley D. I think a constant might be that in these rare examples the individuals ultimately were saved.

[wmfights]

A False Angel can not declare Christ became Human(Divinity became Flesh).

Then why did the following happen?

What is more, demons confessed that Christ was the Son of God. “What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!” (Mark 5:7). These are the words of a demon responding to Christ’s command to leave the demented man. These demons, could, in effect, sign an evangelical statement of faith that affirmed that Christ was “The Holy One Of God,” or “The Son of the Most High God.”

[johngrace]

They did not declare in the personal pronoun like a believer can Say" That I believe Jesus Christ came in the Flesh" . They are recognizing Christ but not as a believer. They are already judged. For you to know a believer or an angel from God to say " I believe" .

"1 John 4 (New International Version)

1 John 4

On Denying the Incarnation

1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Notice the very words A Spirit(Singular Confession) verbatim cannot acknowledge =

This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God"

Otherwise what do you think that means? Acknowledge! I have personally encountered it myself.

I know. I have seen it. It's amazing!

[HarleyD]

If God knows ahead of time at some point who is going to ultimately accept Christ... then God can send angels to help those people while they are still unbelievers

I'll have to go back and read the series. Angels are an extremely interesting topic but one in which there isn't a whole lot of info on. All I can say is that I doubt if they like being pictured as fat little babies with wings. Never picture anyone in caricature who is carrying a flaming sword-that's my motto.

Angels generally are messengers to carry out God's will either through word or deed. I believe the gospel message is given to believers to share with unbelievers. We (believers) have been appointed to help others come to a saving knowledge, although we don't fully recognize or appreciate the power and authority of God's word which we have. The gospel, strangely enough, does not seem to be given to angels to share with unbelievers (e.g. Cornelius). God seem to have set tasks and appointments for each of His creatures.

[HarleyD]

Were not the angles sent to judge Sodom and Gomorrah ? and angles sent to rescue Lot out of Sodom and Gomorrah ?

That's a good question. As far as judging Sodom and Gomorrah I would say no. As far as rescuing Lot out of Sodom, I would have to say that wasn't their primary mission although they did not destroy the place until after they got Lot out of there. Please note what the scriptures tell us:

Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. Gen 18:2 He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth ...

Gen 18:17 The LORD said, "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do,

...

Gen 19:1 The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth

There were three "persons" who visited Abraham. Of those three, one says ""Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do,". God judged Sodom and Gomorrah. The two angels who traveled on to Sodom were only the deliverers of that judgment. The angels' mission was to destroy the place according to God's will.

Gen 19:13 For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it."

It was Lot who went out to talk his sons-in-law into leaving the place, although they refused (Gen 19:14).

Gen 19:14 So Lot went out and said to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, "Up! Get out of this place, for the LORD is about to destroy the city." But he seemed to his sons-in-law to be jesting.

It should be noted that Lot tarry and it was only because of the Lord's mercy that the angels forced Lot and his family out.

Gen 19:16 But he lingered. So the men seized him and his wife and his two daughters by the hand, the LORD being merciful to him, and they brought him out and set him outside the city.

It was because of the Lord's mercy that Lot was spared. I don't wish to make the angels sound cold but it probably wouldn't matter to the angels one way or another if Lot was consumed.

[American Constitutionalist]

"It was because of the Lord's mercy that Lot was spared. I don't wish to make the angels sound cold but it probably wouldn't matter to the angels one way or another if Lot was consumed. "
Can Angels make independent decisions on their own ? the reason why I asked, if they were the Good angles, they don't have the capacity to be cold whether or not Lot say in Sodom or not, they had to obey GOD's command, so ? since it was God's MERCY that saved lot, so to, the angles had to deliver the message to LOT of God's mercy and their assignment..

[American Constitutionalist]

I have had people, while talking to them, seem normal, claim, but, when I mention the Holy Spirit, or the Trinity... it's like a rabid dog with it's fur coming up on it's neck like ruffled feathers....

[American Constitutionalist]

How could those spirits that encounter Christ deny that he was in the flesh, when he was right there in front of them ?
It just proves all the more , that ? Jesus Christ is the Messiah, GOD in the flesh, he was right there, in front of everyone... how could they deny that he came in the flesh ?
Can the devil ? or even demons lie ? speak lies while GOD is right in front of them ?
Are not the demons ? the devil forced to speak the truth when they are being judged by GOD ?
Does not the bible tell us that a day is coming that every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD.
The devil and demons may try to lie to us, but, they can never lie to GOD in his face.. is that a correct assumption ?

[American Constitutionalist]

1 Timothy 4 (King James Version)

1 Timothy 4
1. Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2. Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3. Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


From the:
God's Word Translation:

1 Timothy 4

A Prophecy About the Last Times

1. The Spirit says clearly that in later times some believers will desert the Christian faith. They will follow spirits that deceive, and they will believe the teachings of demons.
2. These people will speak lies disguised as truth. Their consciences have been scarred as if branded by a red-hot iron.
3. They will try to stop others from getting married and from eating certain foods. God created food to be received with prayers of thanks by those who believe and know the truth.
4. Everything God created is good. Nothing should be rejected if it is received with prayers of thanks.
5. The word of God and prayer set it apart as holy.


The writer makes a point that the HOLY SPIRIT expressly says that in the latter days that there will be those who will depart from the Christian faith, that their consciences will be seared with a hot iron.
There will be those who will teach lies, doctrines that there are many ways to GOD APART FROM having a Mediator, and APART FROM JESUS CHRIST's GRACE.
There will be those who teach that the law brings justification alone without Jesus Christ fulfilling the law.
They will teach that it's by your own merits, works, that man can bring themselves to GOD.


What is the message of the Gospel ?
What is the Christian faith ?
What is , the , TRUTH ?

Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ IS the TRUTH.

What was it ? what the writer of Hebrews meant in Hebrews chapter 10 verse ( 26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins ) .... a interesting portion of the bible indeed.
Sin willfully, not obeying the truth.
The truth is the Gospel message that Jesus Christ came to save sinners, and not themselves.
That's the truth and the Gospel message.
Sinning as in, not obeying the truth, Sinning as ? rejecting the Gospel message of the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH.
Sinning ? as in ? Rejecting that there is only salvation of our LORD JESUS CHRIST ALONE BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.
Have to read this book in context.
The writer was writing to the Hebrew Christians who have Judisers come in who claimed they were Christians ( that's who Paul talked about in Galatians about " those who sneaked in " .
They were teaching that those Christians still had to observe the law to be saved, APART FROM JESUS CHRIST.... Saint John called them ANTI-CHRIST.
Saint John said that even though they went out among us, they were not apart of us.
For GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so every believes in him, should not parish, but have every lasting life.
A HOLY GOD sent Jesus Christ as our supstitude sacrificial sacrificed to take our place in the seat of GOD's judgment so we won't have to.
God sent Jesus Christ, GOD in the flesh to atone for our sins so we can stand before GOD spotless and clean.
Jesus Christ saves us by grace through faith in HIM .
That is the Christian faith, that is our mediator's message and finished work.
Those who teach a works based salvation have departed from the faith, for if salvation was by works, then, it's not salvation by faith.
They have seared their consciences by the need to atone for their sins by works.
There minds are always consumed by sin, because they remind everyone and themselves of sin, and not grace.
The more they are consumed in their mind of sin, and the thoughts of sin, they act on their sin, and because their works of sacrifices of bulls and goats can not atone for their sins, no wonder they are a miserable lot.
They also trample the blood of Jesus Christ underfoot because they don't see that his blood as HOLY and Eternal, they consider it as common as the blood of bulls and goats.

[Cvengr]

Great Post

[American Constitutionalist]

Typo Corrections:

Sorry folks, it's late and my eyes are not great..

( *** Sinning ? as in ? Rejecting that there is only salvation in our LORD JESUS CHRIST ALONE BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. *** ) ....

( *** For GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so ever believes in him, should not parish, but have ever lasting life. *** ) ......


A seducing spirit will try to cause you to divert from Jesus Christ and from the way of salvation GOD has made ONLY in OUR LORD Jesus Christ...
Deceivers will try to take away from the finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ and his victory in his Resurrection.
A seducing spirit and deceivers will take attention away from GOD, take away from the GLORY of GOD and put it on themselves, put the attention of their own works, merits, self righteousness ( not Christ's righteousness ) to gain their salvation..
Seducers and Deceivers will come and flatter you with their own vain glory, their own wisdom, their own philosophy.
Works based salvation put's the glory on man, and a Grace based salvation through faith in Jesus Christ puts the GLORY ALONE IN GOD.
Those who trust in their works and merits trust in their own sacrifices of bulls and goats.
They have departed from the Christian faith ( or never was a part of the Christian faith at all ) for if ?? it was a salvation based on man's works, merits, man's self righteousness only ?? then, it can't be said that it is a salvation based alone by grace through faith ALONE in Jesus Christ's work on the cross.

The truth and the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that a HOLY , JUST, RIGHTEOUS GOD came in the flesh , JESUS CHRIST to save sinners, and not themselves , for sinners can not or nor can they never be able to save themselves..

[American Constitutionalist]

The works based salvation people are the " Faith Departers " ..
Departers from the faith that Jesus Christ saves ALONE by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.... they have departed the faith....
How can it be ? if it is salvation by works, then it can't be salvation by faith, and we know, that the Bible tells us that it's a salvation BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST ALONE !!!

Happy New Year !!

Oh, yeah, the " faith without works ( verb ) is dead " ....

Without action , acts ( verb ).. ( motion, action, labor ) , or action, faith just stands there, no life.
Like a pump that pumps water, or ? if someone, or GOD gives you something....

FREELY GOD GIVES !

FREELY WE MUST TAKE ( i.e. taking, a verb, action ) .

Suppose you have a gift you wanted to give to your loved one.
You want to give it freely, but ? it's NEVER a ( ** RECEIVED GIFT ** ) until a action ( working, motion, verb ) is taken by the other person to take it and receive it...

[HarleyD]

There doesn't appear to be any evidence in scriptures of angels making independent choices. There are several cases where demons (anti-angels if you will) suggesting to God courses of actions (such as Job, the lying spirit of Ahab, or the demon possessed man asking to be cast into the swine). However, you won't find angels being so persumptious. They wait for God's command and, once given, act upon those orders.

The problem Christians have is that we fail to be fully obedient to God. It is our "choices" that always gets us into trouble. The angels appear to understand this. If God gives an order, it is to be obeyed because it is 1) the right decision, and 2) it is the perfect decision.

[American Constitutionalist]

Yes, we will hear those who say " well we should preach about the law and sin " .... yes of course !!!


Look at them and say " well, well, let's talk about the sin in YOUR LIFE ! shall we ???? " .....


Jesus said " he that is without sin, cast the first stone " ..... that should sum it up rightly ... right ?


Yes, when we preach and teach about the law, and sin, we should preach and teach that the law or for the law came to show us how sinful and rebellious mankind really is .... OPPS ... someone's pride and arrogance won't let them admit this .....
All of us were born into sin, for we can not, and never can we escape this reality, but, ONLY IN AND THROUGH THE SAVING GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD WHO SAVES US !

The law is to show mankind how sinful and hopeless we really are without Jesus Christ.
The law points to the fact and need that we needed someone to save us.
The law points to Jesus Christ who FULFILLED every righteous demand GOD placed on us.
When reading the law, or the whole Bible, there is a blooded, sacrificed bloody body of Jesus Christ.
There is a scarlet red line that says SACRIFICE !
When we have the knowledge of the TRUTH of Jesus Christ,
Then we can look at the Old Testament and see the PASSOVER.
We can see the passover lamb who takes away the sin of the world...
Yes, let's talk about sin.
Let's talk about how wretched mankind really is.
How lost mankind really is.
How mankind's condition is totally hopeless.
How mankind was dead in our sins and trespasses in front of a HOLY GOD.


BUT !!!!!!

Jesus Christ came,
for Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ...
WE PREACH ABOUT SIN AND THE LAW, but, then, we give people hope and the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that Jesus Christ saves sinners who could not save themselves...
As the book of Ephesians says ( BUT GOD ! WHO IS RICH IN MERCY for his great love wherewith he loved us ).......

THERE IS HOPE FOLKS IN JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD !!!

Ephesians 2

1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.


Romans 8 (King James Version)

Romans 8

1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.



What are you walking after folks ?

After the law of the spirit of life in Jesus Christ through faith in him ?

Or the carnally minded way of the law in the flesh ?
For the law in the flesh was weak, but, the law was fulfilled in us through Jesus Christ who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit in faith in Jesus Christ.
Those who walk in the flesh can not please GOD, for without faith, you can not please GOD, but, expect GOD's rightful judgment on you.
However, someone's pride and arrogance will cause them to be blinded to the truth of the Gospel message of our LORD Jesus Christ, because they reject the plan that it is only by GOD through his son Jesus Christ that saves sinners and not themselves....


What is your hope of your HOPE ?

HOPE IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE ?


Or by your own self efforts and works ?

[American Constitutionalist]

Typo correction :

These old eyes are not great writing this late...
Sorry folks for the typos....

Jesus said " he that is without sin, let him cast the first stone " ..... that should sum it up rightly ... right ?

[Quix]

I agree.

Though . . . evidently angels had some capacity for choice . . . else there’d be no fallen angels.

[Quix]

INDEED.

They will say THEY CREATED Jesus, Buddah etc.

Hideous.

[Quix]

Some of us seem to cause such responses by walking into a room or having our screen names appear under an otherwise mild post.

[Quix]

The Scriptural testing of the spirits according to whether they confess that Jesus is God, CAME IN THE FLESH, died for our sins, rose again etc.

is, imho, the test mortals are called to make, discern as OUR safety criteria.

OF COURSE, ALL CREATION must be truthful in God’s express Presence. imho.

[Quix]

BTW, your posts would be easier on my eyes with more white space.

Certainly the Biblical criteria for Salvation is FAITH IN CHRIST.

I don’t think it’s as easy for one to lose one’s Salvation as some Armenians sp? seem to think.

To some degree, all sin is willful.

As Scripture indicates, we all sin in this mortal life.

Ongoing confession, repentance etc. is to be our way of life.

. . . if we confess our sins, HE IS FAITHFUL TO FORGIVE US AND CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

PRAISE HIS NAME, THANK GOD FOR THE BLOOD OF JESUS.