Posted on 01/01/2011 3:20:55 PM PST by wmfights
Agreed.
INDEED.
Amen to your posts on this Thread. Praise His Holy Name! Praise Jesus!
LUB with Jesus in Jesus in Our walk with Him!
AMEN! AMEN!
Jesus, the very thought of Thee
With sweetness fills the breast!
Yet sweeter far Thy face to see
And in Thy presence rest.
No voice can sing, no heart can frame,
Nor can the memory find,
A sweeter sound than Jesus’ name,
The Savior of mankind.
O hope of every contrite heart!
0 joy of all the meek!
To those who fall, how kind Thou art!
How good to those who seek!
But what to those who find? Ah! this
Nor tongue nor pen can show
The love of Jesus, what it is,
None but His loved ones know.
Jesus! our only hope be Thou,
As Thou our prize shalt be;
In Thee be all our glory now,
And through eternity. Amen.
I don't know.
The rules are different for Angels. They can not be redeemed so the fallen are lost forever and know it. They only have the power that God allows them to have, for example Jesus Christ tells an Angel to bind Satan and thrown him in the pit and it is done. Satan can't resist. So I'm sure if they are told to tell the truth they must.
But it seems to me that they can do all kinds of things to humans that are lost.
INDEED.
I believe these will be those that never believed in the sufficiency of the Cross. IOW, the Holy Spirit was not indwelling them although they "played" at being a Christian. Don't forget Jesus Christ promised the Holy Spirit would be with us always.
They will teach that it's by your own merits, works, that man can bring themselves to GOD.
Now you've moved into the never ending battle with RC's and EO on one side and Evangelical Christians on the other.
I agree, but relying solely on this may not be enough. They are cunning.
I don’t think many would believe
that I had any grounds
to fuss at someone else
about
“ENTHUSIASMS!”
Certainly one would be wise to pray for Holy Spirit’s discernment and to “follow after peace” in one’s spirit from Holy Spirit in all situations, as well.
However, I don’t think Christ was blowing smoke when He gave that criteria.
It must have meant something quite reliable.
I believe these will be those that never believed in the sufficiency of the Cross. IOW, the Holy Spirit was not indwelling them although they "played" at being a Christian. Don't forget Jesus Christ promised the Holy Spirit would be with us always.
wm,..2 different issues at hand.
Believers are never commanded to be indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, rather God the Holy Spirit indwells the believer in this Church Age by His Volition, i.e. His Sovereign decision. That is all God's action, not ours. At the end of the Church Age, it appears the Restrainer is removed, and many identify the Restrainer as a function of the Holy Spirit. Indwelling of the believer by God the Holy Spirit is not a necessary condition for saving faith, but is an action by God by His grace at this time, and for some other believers in the Millennium. I don't know if absolutely no believers in the OT were indwelt by the HS, although their are some strong doctrinal arguments to support that position.
Back to the 1st Timothy passage, .... the same qualifier of 'faith', is also used in passages of saving faith, though might also be understood as 'doctrine', or a system of faith in our thinking or in our soul, minds and hearts.
IMHO, the passage gives a strong indication that there will be believers who fall away for these deceptions.
Aside...if the deceptions weren't so significant to very real believers, Scripture in discussing eschatology or things to come, might not devote so much reiteration of the deception to the audience of believers.
BTW, God the Holy Spirit still indwells believers who are out of fellowship with Him, although they are not being further sanctified until they return to Him in repentance and confession of sins for forgiveness. If they never return, then they simply approach the sin unto death.
Just to clarify, I hold to salvation by faith alone and once saved, always saved. The HOPE or ELPIS is a measure of confident expectation, so yes, by the doctrines of assurance of salvation, I definitely have hope in the saving work of our Lord Christ Jesus.
We aren’t saved by works, although as a natural consequent of our diligence in perseverance and performing as He guides us, works come by our effort and volition while remaining in fellowship with Him, and are rewarded at the bema seat judgment.
IMHO, Scripture makes very good sense that angels are creatures with volition.
MALAK as a person dispatched as a deputy from God, or also as a messenger from God, does strongly imply their function from our perspective is from God.
When our Lord Christ Jesus was tempted in the desert by the Adversary, Satan made several propositions to Christ which obviously were not in accordance with the Word. Those came from the volition of the Adversary, not by God.
We might be getting ahead of ourselves here.
In the study of angels, some have categorized a number of angelic choirs, in which there are many different types of angels.
From my notes:
THE NINE CHOIRS
The Building Blocks of Creation
Though there are many differentiating versions, the most commonly accepted model of the angelic heirarchy is the Throne of Glory model, as found in the Celestial Hierarchies of Dionysius, and the Summa Theologica by Thomas Aquinas.
This model deals with the idea that God is the center of all creation, encompassing the universe as a whole. The nine ranks of angels are split into three triads, which radiate outward from God’s focal point at the center of all being.
THE HIGHEST TRIAD
Choir One: The Seraphim
Seraphs are accepted as the highest ranking angel in God’s service. They have several reported duties, prime among which is ceaselessly chanting “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of Hosts, the whole earth if full of His Glory”. The reason for this monotony is to perpetuate the song of creation, which reverberates love in His kingdom.
In appearance they are quite unsettling. The prophet Isaiah saw a Seraph, who was reported to have six wings - two covering the face, two covering the feet, and two used for flying. They earned the popular title of “fiery flying serpents of lightning”, who roar like lions when aroused. They are more equated with dragons or serpents, which may bring proof of Satan’s position as a Seraph when he was an angel in Heaven.
HERBREW ORIGINS:- ser (doctor, surgeon) rapha (higher being)
CHOIR TWO: THE CHERUBIM
Newcomers , the Cherubim have managed to find their place in the celestial heirarchy. This is because of a famous quote, stating that God stationed “East of Eden the Cherubim and the Ever Turning Sword to guard the way to the Tree of Life”.
Immortalized also by common dipiction found in Baroque ceilings, as I have stated earlier their image in historical lore is less than demure. Other reports state that a Cherub has four faces and four wings. As fearful as they may appear, the Cherubim are beings of great knowledge and wisdom. They are also known as God’s charioteers.
HERBREW ORIGINS:- kerub (one who intercedes)
CHOIR THREE: THRONES
In Jewish lore the Thrones are also known as the great wheels, or “many eyed ones”. While the Cherubim are God’s charioteers, the Thrones seem to be the chariots themselves.
Their appearance was initially explained only as “like buring coals of fire”. Later sightings proved them to be a fiery wheel with four faces. Such sightings have caught the eyes of UFO buffs, for they can closely mirror such sightings of flying saucers.
The Thrones are to express God’s Divine Will as constantly flowing waves of creativity. The ruling prince of the Thrones is said to be the angel Raphael, though is later found in the ranks of the Archangels.
HERBREW ORIGINS:- galgal (pupil of the eye) (alternate name of the Thrones - Galgallin)
THE MIDDLE TRIAD
CHOIR FOUR: DOMINATIONS
Described as Dominations, Dominions, Lords, or by the Hebrew “Hashmallim”. According to Dionysius, the Dominations regulate the duties of angels. Some say that they are channels of mercy within the second Heaven.
CHOIR FIVE: VIRTUES
Known as the Malakim, Dunamis, or the Tarshishim, these angels bestow blessings from God, usually in the form of miracles. They are associated with heroes, and are said to instill courage into the hearts of those who fight for good.
CHOIR six: POWERS
Also called the Dynamis, Potentiates and Authorities, they are said to be the first angels created by God. They are the spirit guides who assist those who have left the body and have lost their way in the astral plane. Perhaps a divine aide to misguided ghosts?
THE lower TRIAD
CHOIR SEVEN: Principalities
Princedoms are the protectors and regulators of earthly boundaries, as well as crown kings, emperors, and powerful rulers, if only in sublime ways. Later they were also reportedly charged with the preservation of religion, and were subsequently forced to take an objective veiw of the concepts of good and evil.
CHOIR eight: ARchangels
Archangels are a confusing breed. They encompass what has been referred to as “the magnificent seven”, yet these names are held in such high esteem that you would think they belonged in the highest rank (known as the Seraphim). Some beleive they do, whilst others maintain that their place is among the Archangels. Nevertheless, the Archangels are God’s messengers, who carry out His decrees. They are also His warriors, for it was the archangels who battled Satan’s uprising.
The “magnificent seven” include the following Archangels: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Sariel, Uriel, Raziel, and Metatron.
CHOIR nine: Angels
Though used as a generalization for the species as a whole, an Angel is the simplest depiction and presence of God’s servant. They are messengers, emissaries, and mediators. They guard mankind from evil influences, and their sheer numbers are incombrehensible. The Talmud speaks of there being one thousand angels assigned to every one child born. Christian tradition, however, is uncharacteristic in their surprising leniency. They state that there are only two angels assigned to each man, woman, and child - one for the right hand, inspiring goodness, and one for the left, influencing him with evil.
NOTE: Some consider the Nephilim to be the one and only rank among the supposed Tenth Choir, though there is little to support this thought. The Nephilim are cross-breeds - half human and half angel.
The Nephilim - Grigori (The Watchers)
In Hebrew lore they were known as giants, the offspring of fallen angels (”the sons of God”) and the daughters of men. (Genesis 6). Apparently not a pleasant merging of species, the Nephilim - or Grigori, which means “one who watches” - created havoc upon the earth, going so far as eating people. Some say it was this attrocioty that urged God to create the flood that Noah saw out.
Information on the angelic hierarchies chart are from Gustav Davidson’s “A Dictionary of Angels, Including the Fallen Angels”, copyright 1967. The Free Press - A Divison of Macmillan, Inc.
This is a very recommended book.
In depth information found after was drawn from Malcom Godwin’s “Angels - An Endangered Species”, copyright 1990. Simon and Schuster Inc.
A great book covering both sides of the story, so to speak.
No doubt.
Thinking about this I'm wondering if because we as believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and we are in Christ that a fallen angel can not lie to us. Not because of us, but because of what is in us.
We know a fallen angel can not possess a believer.
It looks like this is going to be one of those times we are going to disagree. As a believer in a pretribulation rapture I don't believe ITim.4:1-9 is a passage that occurs during the Tribulation, but precedes it.
The Holy Spirit (I agree is the restrainer) indwells all believers.
John 14:17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
The indwelling Holy Spirit is a result of faith.
BTW, God the Holy Spirit still indwells believers who are out of fellowship with Him, although they are not being further sanctified until they return to Him in repentance and confession of sins for forgiveness. If they never return, then they simply approach the sin unto death.
This presents an alternative explanation. In this case if true believers begin to believe the "doctrines of demons" they may be taken home with lost rewards, but not having lost their salvation.
Agreed, and Amen !
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