Posted on 01/04/2011 4:22:02 AM PST by NYer
Converts often become great catholics! I too was impressed, especially on how Drake and Crystal prepare their children for mass each week, by reading the scriptures they will hear and discussing them. I do something similar with my religious education students. Our class is held just before mass. Towards the end of our lesson plan, we discuss that Sunday's readings. It has brought the liturgy alive for them.
Thank you for the post and your witness!
Then the Liturgy of the Eucharist began. I watched and listened as the priest pronounced the words of consecration and elevated the host. And I confess, the last drop of doubt drained away at that moment. I looked and said, "My Lord and my God." As the people began going forward to receive communion, I literally began to drool, "Lord, I want you. I want communion more fully with you. You've come into my heart. You're my personal Savior and Lord, but now I think You want to come onto my tongue and into my stomach, and into my body as well as my soul until this communion is complete." And as soon as it began, it was over. People stuck around for a minute or two for thanksgiving and then left. And eventually, I just walked out and wondered, what have I done? But the next day I was back,
and the next, and the next. I couldn't tell a soul. I couldn't tell my wife. But in two or three weeks I was hooked. I was head over heels in love with Christ and His Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. It became the source and the summit and the climax of each day, and I still couldn't tell anybody.
All just because the Mass is biblical! Hooray!
So if he now believes that the catholic church is the one true church does he feel that he has to answer for people that he “led astray” as a Protestant?
I must say that, on the whole, if you’re going to pick a Protestant denomination, Foursquare is a good place to be. It is firm in its moral teachings, and with its focus on living for Jesus, a person will inevitably grow closer and more like Jesus the longer he attends.Converts to Catholicism don't get filled with hate for the groups they leave behind.
“I’ve witnessed it, most who partake go through the motions.”
That’s a holy ability you have.
I wouldn’t dare attempt to discern other’s souls and attitudes.
But, then again, I’m just a run of the mill Christian. ~Not a particularly good one at that.
I’ve only known one person, a holy priest, able to read souls. That was an experience! He nailed my forgotten sins and stumbling block.
I’ve never stumbled over that particular block again.
Whatever it is it's apparently inadequate. I always regret afterward stepping into these theological and/or religious discussions and I apologise in advance for being out of my depth.
But to answer your question more adequately, my understanding is mostly based on "hearsay" from Roman Catholic friends and classmates growing up of what they were taught in Catechism classes, and with former (i.e. brought up Catholic) Roman Catholics who are now members of the church I and my family chose years ago to belong to (Disciples of Christ).
But speaking as someone with a fairly solid education and degree in History, the structure of the Catholic Church has long struck me as the sole remaining example of rule by a King's divine right with the Pope in the position of unquestionable arbiter between Man and God. If you question the Bishop of Rome you are questioning God.
The immense trappings of Medieval wealth and power one sees in a place like St. Peter's make a Czarist palace look like a country shack in comparison. Having been in both places I think I am qualified to observe, compare, and comment. And I understand why the Church is this way. After all, it was in place to supplant, took on, and retain many of the forms and trappings of Imperial Rome. Some of that obscures the fact that Catholics and Protestants agree on nearly all the basics as outlined in scripture, most importantly that *Jesus the Christ was and is exactly Who He said He was*.
PS: I don't object to the "trappings". I'm as susceptible to a sense of awe and majesty as anyone. Bottom line is I don't need it. Accepting literally, and trying with a frail human brain, to come to grips with *this* fact is quite mind blowing enough for me.
I forgot that one needs to be a deity to observe a human’s lack of sincerity and interest.
Comments like what? Praying to Jesus? That's not a comment, bro. That's right out of The Bible. You could look it up.
But I know how you Catholics are. You never back your stuff up with actual Bible verses. You just make vague allusions to church teachings or whatnot without ever specifying where the teaching came from.
Do at least try to refrain from making it personal.
And thanks, once again, for illustrating my point. I couldn't have gotten a better example if I had paid for it.
Why don't you ask him? Mind-reading of third parties may be technically permitted on this forum, but it's still a bad idea.
I am reminded of a conversion story I read a few years ago. IIRC, the fellow was Baptist. Among other things, he recounted having looked up many folks he "witnessed to" in his previous faith, and having explained to them why he now thought his previous testimony to them was wrong. He had been a Mormon. I may disagree with his present theology, but I admire his persistence and intellectual honesty. I can't say that I've ever read/heard about anyone else, of any religious persuasion, doing that.
Well, as you probably know, stuart, that statement is true for just about anything.
Theologically speaking, a "big picture perspective" means God creates and sustains all that is, was and will be, according to His own good pleasure alone.
Thanks so much for this.
Saved for later use.
Once again, you allude to some mysterious point without offering any substance with which to back it up. Namely a Bible verse.
I couldn't have gotten a better example if I had paid for it.
Yeah. Bummer how all that paying for absolution of sins and whatnot went away in the 1500s or 1600s or thereabouts.
I'm sure up till then you could allude to some mysterious teaching to justify the practice.
What changed? Hmmmmm...
Try reading the whole thread, from the beginning.
Bwaaaaa ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa!!!
Ahem. I'm not going to read all 116 posts. Just point to the one that justifies Priests charging for forgiving of sins or when and how the practice ended.
And while you're at it, when the disciples asked Jesus to teach them how to pray, which Saint did he tell them to pray to?
Yes, that’s why I said it.
Your loss. In any case, my very first post to you indicated what I was talking about.
You've gone on and abundantly proven what I spoke of, for which I thank you.
Good day.
Thank you, katana, for a refreshingly honest reply. Many catholics are also ignorant of what constitutes papal infallibility. Let's begin with what infallibility is not. Infallibility is not the absence of sin. Nor is it a charism that belongs only to the pope. Indeed, infallibility also belongs to the body of bishops as a whole, when, in doctrinal unity with the pope, they solemnly teach a doctrine as true. We have this from Jesus himself, who promised the apostles and their successors the bishops, the magisterium of the Church: "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16), and "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matt. 18:18).
An infallible pronouncement—whether made by the pope alone or by an ecumenical council—usually is made only when some doctrine has been called into question. Most doctrines have never been doubted by the large majority of Catholics. What infallibility does do is prevent a pope from solemnly and formally teaching as "truth" something that is, in fact, error. It does not help him know what is true, nor does it "inspire" him to teach what is true. He has to learn the truth the way we all do—through study—though, to be sure, he has certain advantages because of his position.
It is the Holy Spirit who prevents the pope from officially teaching error, and this charism follows necessarily from the existence of the Church itself. If, as Christ promised, the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church then it must be protected from fundamentally falling into error and thus away from Christ. It must prove itself to be a perfectly steady guide in matters pertaining to salvation.
Many of the individuals who oppose the doctrine of papal infallibility claim to receive special revelations from God. Most believe that they can privately interpret Scripture in direct violation of 2 Peter 1:20. They characterize the doctrine of papal infallibility as arrogant, while claiming for themselves authority that goes far beyond it. And what is the fruit of their claims? Thousands of denominations all claim the Bible as their authority and yet all disagreeing on what it teaches. To make matters worse, many of their teachings change from time to time. Those who object to the doctrine of papal infallibility are the greatest proof of its need.
As for the immense trappings of Medieval wealth and power one sees in a place like St. Peter's , you may recall the media's great surprise when the Last Will of deceased Pope John Paul II was read and they learned he had no personal wealth. There is a great misconception that the Catholic Church is wealthy, because some of its churches are elaborately constructed. The big beautiful traditional Churches that receive the most complaints were not built with big bucks. They were built with the sweat of the brow of volunteers who worked 'till 11 PM every night after a full day of working their regular day jobs. They would do this for years until their community Parish was built. For the big European Churches it would take many generations. The Cologne Cathedral took 700 years! Why? Out of love for Christ, who is present in the Eucharist.
A good example in the secular world, is the White House. The American people built a beautiful home for their President, out of pride and respect for his position. Imagine how Catholics feel about showing their great love for God! Those magnificent paintings, sculptures and carved wood, are all gifts from the people. They bear the names of the donors. And yet catholics also recognize that Christ is present in the simplest of churches or no church at all. Catholic chaplains celebrate the mass on the back of jeeps or in fields. Don't be deceived by the grandeur. Our greatest treasures are the people we serve - the poor, the indigent, the sick and dying. The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world.
I hope this information will encourage you to learn more about the Catholic Church and dispel the myths of those who are ignorant. Thank you again, for your post and ping.
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