Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Miracle approved for beatification of John Paul II
Rome Reports ^ | 1/4/2011

Posted on 01/04/2011 3:05:11 PM PST by markomalley

January 4, 2011. The beatification of John Paul II appears to be quickly approaching. According to the Vatican, during the last weeks of 2010, doctors and theologians from the Congregation for the Causes of Saints gathered in the strictest of secrecy, to finally approve the miracle that will take the “Venerable” John Paul II to the altars.

It was the instant and unexplainable healing of a French nun, Marie Simon-Pierre, who suffered from advanced Parkinson's. The disease forced her to retire from her duties as a nurse in the maternity hospital of Arles, France. In June 2005, after praying to John Paul II for an improvement in her disease, the Parkinson's totally disappeared.

Now the miracle just needs to be ratified by the cardinals and bishops of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints and then signed by Benedict XVI, which is expected to take place this January.

Then, the eventual beatification of John Paul II will be only a matter of time, and should take place in May or October of this year, which will bring millions of people together in celebration.


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-62 next last

1 posted on 01/04/2011 3:05:17 PM PST by markomalley
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: markomalley

They need to wait. We need time to see the full fruit of JPII. Some of which was not good.


3 posted on 01/04/2011 3:10:20 PM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: allmendream
WTH is up with that pic???

Click on it and it takes you to the video of that story.

4 posted on 01/04/2011 3:10:57 PM PST by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: markomalley
Notwithstanding the Church's methodical approach, the discerning Christian doesn't need miracles to recognize that John Paul the Great was a Saint.
5 posted on 01/04/2011 3:13:02 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

She prayed TO a POPE?

That’s completely un-biblical.


6 posted on 01/04/2011 3:13:05 PM PST by WXRGina
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Hey! I thought my comment was funny! I even &%$’d the naughty word that was a reference to a perfectly normal biological function that we all (even Saints) perform.

First thing I thought of when I saw that pic.

“Is a Bear Catholic?”

Sorry if you or anybody else took offense. I will try to refrain from attempts at humor.


7 posted on 01/04/2011 3:17:09 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Interesting. However, if a hundred other people prayed to the Pope for healing and all died regardless, does that deduct from his total?? Never quite understood the setup...magritte


8 posted on 01/04/2011 3:17:29 PM PST by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

“Click on it and it takes you to the video of that story.”

Not at work it will not. :)

PTWAH.

(ping to watch at home)


9 posted on 01/04/2011 3:18:38 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

I thought three certified miracles were required for beatification?


10 posted on 01/04/2011 3:24:22 PM PST by MeganC (January 20, 2013 - President Sarah Palin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MeganC

Maybe he had a coupon.


11 posted on 01/04/2011 3:30:02 PM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom

They need to wait. We need time to see the full fruit of JPII. Some of which was not good.

&&&
The kissing of the koran comes to mind.


12 posted on 01/04/2011 3:39:18 PM PST by Bigg Red (Palin/Hunter 2012 -- Bolton their Secretary of State)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: MeganC

I think it was always two for beatification; used to be three for canonization, but they changed it to two IIRC.


13 posted on 01/04/2011 3:44:10 PM PST by maryz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Bigg Red

Yes, manic ecumenism, pushing VII and other things. But I accept that God works in mysterious ways and future saints don’t come to me for my opinion. He may be a worthy of sainthood after all.


14 posted on 01/04/2011 3:44:49 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: steve86

>>Yes, manic ecumenism, pushing VII and other things<<

Spot on.


15 posted on 01/04/2011 3:51:25 PM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom

Hope you and yours have a Happy New Year! I got so stressed out by DADT and other things I ended up in the hospital for a night, now trying not to dwell on things that disturb me. We had a little better turnout at our Latin Mass Sunday; this removes one concern I had.


16 posted on 01/04/2011 3:57:02 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Bigg Red

“&&&
The kissing of the koran comes to mind.”

I have to give him a pass on that. I’ve worked with geratrics for too long. Mild dementia can do some weird brainworks.


17 posted on 01/04/2011 4:00:04 PM PST by OpusatFR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

...and herein is exposed some of the great divide between Protestants and their Catholic brethren.


18 posted on 01/04/2011 4:01:42 PM PST by americanophile
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: steve86

Our TLM is always full, thank The Lord!
I’m glad you’re feeling better!


19 posted on 01/04/2011 4:12:42 PM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: americanophile

>>...and herein is exposed some of the great divide between Protestants and their Catholic brethren.<<

Not really.
Catholics believe that we ask those in heaven to pray with us for God’s intercession.
Protestants believe that we ask those on Earth to pray with us for God’s intercession.

Just as Protestants don’t believe that another soul can make a miracle, only God, so Catholics do not believe that those who are living eternally in heaven can make a miracle, only God.

We both believe that when two are joined together it is powerful. Catholics just utilize those who have gone before us.


20 posted on 01/04/2011 4:17:38 PM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

I can't seem to find anywhere in Christ's new covenant a Biblical endorsement for praying to forgiven sinners past or present.
21 posted on 01/04/2011 4:31:14 PM PST by Orbiter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: P8riot

THAT was funny!!!! (-:


22 posted on 01/04/2011 4:52:50 PM PST by MeganC (January 20, 2013 - President Sarah Palin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: MeganC

;~)


23 posted on 01/04/2011 5:31:55 PM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: magritte
Interesting. However, if a hundred other people prayed to the Pope for healing and all died regardless, does that deduct from his total?? Never quite understood the setup..

LOL

24 posted on 01/04/2011 5:59:17 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom
They don’t pray too the saints? Oh yes they do.

Prayer of Pope Pius XII
In Honor of the Immaculate Conception
http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm
Prayer of Pope Pius XII

Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe.

O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of all holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! O Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!

O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cry which rises up from every heart. Bend tenderly over our aching wounds. Convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and oppressed, comfort the poor and humble, quench hatreds, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity in youth, protect the holy Church, make all men feel the attraction of Christian goodness. In your name, resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that they are brothers, and that the nations are members of one family, upon which may there shine forth the sun of a universal and sincere peace.

Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people! Amen.

Not one word of praying through Mary. He was praying to Mary.

25 posted on 01/04/2011 6:09:51 PM PST by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: P8riot

26 posted on 01/04/2011 6:15:47 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

This miracle business needs to be regulated somehow, by the Church, or even the gummint, otherwise it’s like a state lottery, somebody wins, but realistically your chances are nil. Let’s say I need a miracle (and as a matter of fact, I do) where do I go? As one applicant observed above, what’s the arithmetic of miracles? One gets it, 100 don’t and die, what’s deal, dude Papa?


27 posted on 01/04/2011 6:48:36 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

No, they don’t.
And especially the Pope does not. You are not God and have no clue what was in his heart nor his intention.

Assuming makes an a$$ out of you and me.

So unless you can come up with the dogma that says what you believe, I’m sorry but you have misunderstood the intent of that prayer.


28 posted on 01/04/2011 6:50:06 PM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom

>> I’m sorry but you have misunderstood the intent of that prayer.<<

That was a direct link to a Catholic website which printed the exact words of the prayer. It’s not hard to read who he was praying to.


29 posted on 01/04/2011 6:55:47 PM PST by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom

I tend to agree with your first post, but my posts are not getting through?


30 posted on 01/04/2011 6:57:53 PM PST by blackpacific
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

I suppose the question remains, does Mary have a throne, and are you subject to it? By the way, it is an easy yoke. He who honors the Mother honors the Son, from Whom all Grace flows.


31 posted on 01/04/2011 7:01:28 PM PST by blackpacific
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: WXRGina
Not quite. She prayed asking that he pray with her. It's like asking your family or church to pray with you only in this case the Pope was deceased.

Catholic theology offer Biblical support for it.

32 posted on 01/04/2011 7:07:00 PM PST by newzjunkey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: blackpacific

>>He who honors the Mother honors the Son, from Whom all Grace flows.<<

Interesting that Jesus nor the Apostles gave her the elevated status that the Catholic Church now does.


33 posted on 01/04/2011 7:09:06 PM PST by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

Both Jesus and John and Luke honored the Blessed Virgin Mary, as did the Early Church Fathers. The fact that the Church continues to honor and appreciate her role is nothing new, except to those who hide behind walls of ignorance.


34 posted on 01/04/2011 9:07:08 PM PST by blackpacific
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Orbiter

You nrver ask your friends to pray for you?

Good grief, we have prayer threads on FR all the time. They ask for prayer.

That’s what the nun was doing. Asking Pope John Paul II to pray for her.

Nothing more, nothing less.


35 posted on 01/04/2011 9:13:08 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Can we question, can we doubt? Haven’t the Popes done it? It’s a sincere quetion, I’m not asking as a hostile FR Prottie.


36 posted on 01/04/2011 9:17:49 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!; Orbiter
III. Specific Instructions to Mediate and Examples of Subordinate Mediation

New Testament

Matt. 5:44-45 - Jesus tells us to pray for (to mediate on behalf of) those who persecute us. God instructs us to mediate.

Matt. 17:1-3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30-31 – deceased Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration to converse with Jesus in the presence of Peter, James and John (these may be the two “witnesses” John refers to in Rev. 11:3). Nothing in Scripture ever suggests that God abhors or cuts off communication between the living in heaven and the living on earth. To the contrary, God encourages communication within the communion of saints. Moses and Elijah’s appearance on earth also teach us that the saints in heaven have capabilities that far surpass our limitations on earth.

Matt. 26:53 – Jesus says He can call upon the assistance of twelve legions of angels. If Jesus said He could ask for the assistance of angel saints, then so can we, who are called to imitate Jesus in word and in deed. And, in Matt. 22:30, Jesus says we will be “like angels in heaven.” This means human saints (like the angel saints) can be called upon to assist people on earth. God allows and encourages this interaction between his family members.

Matt. 27:47,49; Mark 15:35-36 – the people believe that Jesus calls on Elijah for his intercession, and waits to see if Elijah would come to save Jesus on the cross.

Matt. 27:52-53 - at Jesus' passion, many saints were raised and went into the city to appear and presumably interact with the people, just as Jesus did after His resurrection.

Mark 11:24 - Jesus says that whatever we ask in prayer, we will receive it. It is Jesus, and also we through Jesus, who mediate.

John 2:3 - Jesus knew the wine was gone, but invites and responds to Mary's intercession. God desires our lesser mediation and responds to it because He is a living and loving God.

John 2:5 - Mary intercedes on behalf of those at the wedding feast and tells them to do whatever Jesus tells them. Because Mary is our perfect model of faith, we too intercede on behalf of our brothers and sisters.

John 2:11 - in fact, it was Mary's intercession that started Jesus' ministry. His hour had not yet come, yet Jesus responds to Mary's intercession. Even though He could do it all by Himself, God wants to work with His children.

Acts 12:7 – an angel strikes Peter on the side and wakes him up, freeing him from prison. The angel responds to Peter’s prayers.

Rom. 15:30 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for him. If we are united together in the one body of Christ, we can help each other.

2 Cor. 1:11 - Paul even suggests that the more prayers and the more people who pray, the merrier! Prayer is even more effective when united with other's prayers.

2 Cor. 9:14 - Paul says that the earthly saints pray for the Corinthians. They are subordinate mediators in Christ.

2 Cor. 13:7,9 - Paul says the elders pray that the Corinthians may do right and improve. They participate in Christ's mediation.

Gal. 6:2,10 - Paul charges us to bear one another's burdens, and to do good to all, especially those in the household of faith.

Eph. 6:18 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for each other.

Eph. 6:19 - Paul commands that the Ephesians pray for him. If there is only one mediator, why would Paul ask for their prayers?

Phil. 1:19 - Paul acknowledges power of Philippians' earthly intercession. He will be delivered by their prayers and the Holy Spirit.

Col. 1:3 - Paul says that he and the elders pray for the Colossians. They are subordinate mediators in the body of Christ.

Col. 1:9 - Paul says that he and the elders have not ceased to pray for the Colossians, and that, by interceding, they may gain wisdom.

Col. 4:4 - Paul commands the Colossians to pray for the elders of the Church so that God may open a door for the word. Why doesn't Paul just leave it up to God? Because subordinate mediation is acceptable and pleasing to God, and brings about change in the world. This is as mysterious as the Incarnation, but it is true.

1 Thess. 5:11 - Paul charges us to encourage one another and build one another up, in the body of Christ. We do this as mediators in Christ.

1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul says "pray constantly." If Jesus' role as mediator does not apply subordinately to us, why pray at all?

1 Thess. 5:25 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for the elders of the Church. He desires our subordinate mediation.

2 Thess. 1:11 - Paul tells the family of God that he prays for us. We participate in Christ's mediation because Christ desires this.

2 Thess. 3:1 - Paul asks the Thessalonians to pray for Him, Silvanus and Timothy so that they may be delivered.

1 Tim. 2:1-3 - Paul commands us to pray for all. Paul also states that these prayers are acceptable in the sight of God.

2 Tim. 1:3 – Paul says “I remember you constantly in my prayers.”

Philemon 22 - Paul is hoping through Philemon's intercession that he may be able to be with Philemon.

Heb. 1:14 – the author writes, “Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?”

Hebrews 13:18-19 - the author strongly urges the Hebrews to pray for the elders so that they act desirably in all things.

James 5:14-15- James says the prayer of the priests over the sick man will save the sick man and forgive his sins. This is a powerful example of men forgiving sins and bringing a person to salvation with the sacrament of the sick.

James 5:16 - James instructs us to confess our sins to one another and pray for one another so that we may be healed.

James 5:17-18 - James refers to God's response to Elijah's fervent prayer for no rain. He is teaching us about the effectiveness of our earthly mediation.

1 John 5:14-15 - John is confident that God will grant us anything we ask of God according to His will.

1 John 5:16-17 - our prayers for others even calls God to give life to them and keep them from sinning. Our God is a personal and living God who responds to our prayers.

3 John 2 - John prays for Gaius' health and thus acts as a subordinate mediator.

Rev. 1:4 – this verse shows that angels (here, the seven spirits) give grace and peace. Because grace and peace only come from God, the angels are acting as mediators for God.

Rev. 5:8 - the prayers of the saints (on heaven and earth) are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven. This shows that the saints intercede on our behalf before God, and it also demonstrates that our prayers on earth are united with their prayers in heaven. (The “24 elders” are said to refer to the people of God – perhaps the 12 tribes and 12 apostles - and the “four living creatures” are said to refer to the angels.)

Rev. 6:9-11 – the martyred saints in heaven cry out in a loud voice to God to avenge their blood “on those who dwell upon the earth.” These are “imprecatory prayers,” which are pleas for God’s judgment (see similar prayers in Psalm 35:1; 59:1-17; 139:19; Jer. 11:20; 15:15; 18:19; Zech.1:12-13). This means that the saints in heaven are praying for those on earth, and God answers their prayers (Rev. 8:1-5). We, therefore, ask for their intercession and protection.

Rev. 8:3-4 – in heaven an angel mingles incense with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne of God, and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. These prayers “rise up” before God and elicit various kinds of earthly activity. God responds to his children’s requests, whether made by his children on earth or in heaven.

Old Testament

Gen. 20:17 - God responds to Abraham's intercession and heals Abimelech, and also his wife and slaves.

Gen. 27:29; Num. 24:9 - blessed be everyone who blesses you. If we bless others in prayer, we are also blessed.

Exodus 32:11-14, 30-34; 34:9; Num. 14:17-20; 21:7-9 - these are many examples of God's response to Moses' saintly intercession.

1 Sam. 12:23 - Samuel says that he would be sinning against God if he didn't continue to intercede for the people of Israel.

1 Sam. 28:7-20 – the deceased prophet Samuel appears and converses with Saul, which is confirmed by Sirach 46:13,20).

1 Sam. 28:7; 1 Chron. 10:13-14 - Saul practiced necromancy. He used a medium, not God, to seek the dead and was therefore condemned. Saul's practice is entirely at odds with the Catholic understanding of saintly mediation, where God is the source and channel of all communication, and who permits His children to participate in this power.

2 Chron. 30:27 - the prayers of the priests and Levites came before God's holy habitation in heaven and were answered.

Tobit 12:12,15 - angels place Tobit and Sarah's prayers before the Holy One. This teaches us that the angels are also our subordinate mediators. We pray to the angels to take up our prayers to God.

Job 42:7-9 - Job prayed for three friends in sin and God listened to Job as a result of these prayers.

Psalm 34:7 – the angel of the Lord delivers those who fear him.

Psalm 91:11 – God will give His angels charge of you, to guard you in all your ways.

Psalm 103:20-21; 148:1-2 – we praise the angels and ask for their assistance in doing God’s will.

Psalm 141:2 - David asks that his prayer be counted as incense before God. The prayers of the saints have powerful effects.

Isaiah 6:6-7 - an angel touches Isaiah's lips and declares that his sin is forgiven. The angel is a subordinate mediator of God who effects the forgiveness of sins on God’s behalf.

Jer. 7:16 - God acknowledges the people's ability to intercede, but refuses to answer due to the hardness of heart.

Jer. 15:1 – the Lord acknowledges the intercessory power of Moses and Samuel.

Jer. 37:3 - king Zedekiah sends messengers to ask Jeremiah to intercede for the people, that he might pray to God for them.

Jer. 42:1-6 - all the people of Israel went before Jeremiah asking for his intercession, that he would pray to the Lord for them.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. They can intercede on behalf of the people of God.

Dan. 9:20-23 - Daniel intercedes on behalf of the people of Israel confessing both his sins and the sins of the people before God.

Zech. 1:12-13 - an angel intercedes for those in Judea and God responds favorably.

2 Macc. 15:12-16 – the high priest Onias and the prophet Jeremiah were deceased for centuries, and yet interact with the living Judas Maccabeas and pray for the holy people on earth.


37 posted on 01/04/2011 9:20:24 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

You respond quoting the scripture. Fine.

My prayers haven’t been answered. No miracles to report here. Perhaps I haven’t been praying hard enough, often enough, I haven’t gone to church to confession and Holy Communion. Perhaps I am being punished for my sins.

I don’t know, I’m in dire straits, still there, watching miracles happen to others like that homeless man with a golden voice, Ted Williams. I was at one of the most beautiful places on the planet this afternoon, showing it off to a visitor from Asia, who said he envied me for living in such a wonderful place. I was there, the unhappiest man on earth, forgotten by God and all the Saints, or maybe forgetting them all myself.

In the face of betrayals of the hatred, my faith hasn’t held, that’s all.


38 posted on 01/04/2011 9:30:24 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: maryz; MeganC
Vatican to encourage greater caution in opening sainthood causes
Pope clarifies Church’s traditions, norms for canonization; announces new instruction
They Need A Miracle Will a future pope relax the rules for sainthood?
Role of Miracles In Sainthood Eyed
Saint-making Pope is ready to ditch the miracle clause
Contribution to a Canonization
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Canonization of Saints: Current Canonization Process, Biblical Description of Miracles

39 posted on 01/04/2011 9:40:45 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: blackpacific

Honor and worship are two different things FRiend. Mary herself said that Jesus was her Savior as well as He is yours and mine. Had she been sinless as today’s Catholic Church claims she would have been the only one other then Jesus. A fact that important would surely have been clearly written about by the Apostles as was Jesus sinless nature. To claim a sinless Mary is to denigrate the importance of Jesus sinless nature as the only true pure sacrifice for our sins. The Church didn’t officially proclaim that she ascended bodily into heaven until 1950 a fact that belies the importance to earlier Churches.


41 posted on 01/05/2011 2:04:17 AM PST by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
I italicized the word "to" to make my point clear. Sorry you missed it. And, yes, I have asked people to pray for me (to God through His son). The Hail Mary is an example of praying to a forgiven sinner asking they intercede to the Father on our behalf. That's Christ's job. My argument stands.
42 posted on 01/05/2011 2:45:17 AM PST by Orbiter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!

LOL!


43 posted on 01/05/2011 2:52:07 AM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

Honor and worship are inexact terms, which is what most who hide behind walls of ignorance like to use. Try dulia, hyperdulia, and latria. This has been covered so many times, .. the rains came, and the winds blew, but the walls of ignorance stood ...

Jesus Christ, conceived without sin. True God and true man.

Mary Ever Virgin, conceived without sin, the perfect human, she never sinned. Rather than “denigrate”, maybe she glorified God by her perfect response to the saving Grace of our Redemption, won for us by her Son on the cross?

John the Baptist, conceived in sin, but confirmed in grace and actually sinless after being sanctified by Jesus Christ while in the womb, at the sound of Mary’s words to her cousin Elizabeth. The last and greatest of the prophets.

Adam, conceived without sin, then he blew it.

Eve, conceived without sin, then, well... you get it?

We are talking about 5 singularities amidst billions of humans. As the Psalmist says, “I said in my excess: Every man is a liar.” What David is telling us, is that what he is saying is generally true, that it is a very slight exaggeration (in my excess) to say all men are liars, because you can count on the fingers of one hand the total number of humans who were sinless. I don’t think this is a hard concept to grasp, unless one is a Selfish Giant, afraid to knock down the walls of ignorance to let the full light of revealed Truth shine in.

“Lift up your gates, O ye princes, and be ye lifted up, O eternal gates: and the King of Glory shall enter in.”


44 posted on 01/05/2011 5:45:07 AM PST by blackpacific
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!
I prayed to Odin that the local quick stop would not be out of those doughnuts with the sprinkles this morning and lo and behold, they still had a few. Later, I prayed to the Pope for intercession that traffic would be light on the way to work, but I got stuck in a jam for 15 minutes.

Odin 1 - Pope 0.
45 posted on 01/05/2011 6:07:45 AM PST by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear
To claim a sinless Mary is to denigrate the importance of Jesus sinless nature

To claim that it is Jesus' sinlessness that is of primary importance is to miss -- or simply deny -- that the important thing is His Divinity! Mary was preserved from the stain of Original Sin (and from sin) as she was ordained from all Eternity to be the Mother of God's Divine Son.

46 posted on 01/05/2011 6:13:19 AM PST by maryz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: magritte
However, if a hundred other people prayed to the Pope for healing and all died regardless

We all die. The qualification for being defined as a miraculous healing is that a board of doctors must conclude that there is no way known to medical science that that particular healing could have happened.

47 posted on 01/05/2011 6:16:35 AM PST by maryz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: magritte

Yes, and if you were a Cuban schoolchild, you would be told to pray to God for candy and — lo! — no candy. Then you would be told to pray to Castro for candy — and when you opened your eyes, there’d be a piece of candy on your desk!


48 posted on 01/05/2011 6:23:11 AM PST by maryz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

>>That was a direct link to a Catholic website which printed the exact words of the prayer. It’s not hard to read who he was praying to.<<

It’s not what you SEE but rather the intent of the prayer.
Until you can post a dogma stating what you say this prayer says, it is unreasonable to state that a Pope would go against Catholic dogma.

You are assuming intent.


49 posted on 01/05/2011 6:43:38 AM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: newzjunkey

There are plenty of groups the use and misinterpret the Bible to “support” unbiblical ideas.

I see quite a bit of misinformation here, and in general, from Catholicism. One guy comes up with a hundred scriptures trying to distort the meaning of the mediator between God and man. The Word of God does say there is ONE and only ONE Mediator between God and man—the Lord Jesus Christ. We are told to pray without ceasing, but nowhere are we told to pray to anyone other than God-nowhere. And in the New Testament, we now pray to God through the name of Jesus.


50 posted on 01/05/2011 7:09:37 AM PST by WXRGina
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-62 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson