Posted on 01/13/2011 3:36:43 PM PST by wmfights
>> She herself is created and not divine.<<
Do you not read my posts? I showed you were they have declared her divine and omnipotent. St. Alphonsus De Liguori [1696-1787] who was canonized a Saint in 1839 and proclaimed a Doctor of the Church by Pope Pius IX on July 7th, 1871 in his Dignity and Duties of the Priest specifically states that she is to be considered divine and omnimpotent. Go back and read that post. The RCC disagrees with you.
Now stop trying to deceive me.
You missed the point .
Samuel was not happy to be disturbed .
Saul and his army ended up swallowed up by the philistines.
[pg. 16]
27. Inasmuch as grace perfects nature, and glory perfects grace, it is certain that Our Lord is still, in Heaven, as much the Son of Mary as He was on earth; and that, consequently, He has retained the obedience and submission of the most perfect Child toward the best of all mothers. But we must take great pains not to conceive this dependence as any abasement or imperfection in Jesus Christ. For Mary is infinitely below her Son, who is God, and therefore she does not command Him as a mother here below would command her child who is below her. Mary, being altogether transformed into God by grace and by the glory which transforms all the saints into Him, asks nothing, wishes nothing, does nothing contrary to the eternal and immutable will of God. When we read that in the writings of Sts. Bernard, Bernardine, Bonaventure and others that in Heaven and on earth everything, even God Himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God has been well pleased to give her is so great that [pg. 17] it seems as if she had the same power as God; and that her prayers and petitions are so powerful with God that they always pass for commandments with His Majesty, who never resists the prayer of His dear Mother, because she is always humble and conformed to His will.
28. In the Heavens Mary commands the angels and the blessed. As a recompense for her profound humility, God has empowered her and commissioned her to fill with saints the empty thrones from which the apostate angels fell by pride. The will of the Most High, who exalts the humble (Lk. 1:52), is that Heaven, earth and Hell bend, with good will or bad will, to the commandments of the humble Mary, whom He has made sovereign of Heaven and earth, general of His armies, treasurer of His treasures, dispenser of His graces, worker of His greatest marvels, restorer of the human race, Mediatrix of men, the exterminator of the enemies of God, and the faithful companion of His grandeurs and triumphs.
Transformed into God? God Himself is subject to the Blessed Virgin? Do you have any idea what your church really believes and teaches? Good grief.
It certainly did, until the end of the feudal system, and the advent of the printing press.
no dear friend, it’s not history that is the problem, it’s these mythical “true” Christians that weren’t there that is your problem!
Hardly. They become more evident as time marches on... In the last four hundred years of her Reign of Terror, It becomes easy to see.
But being protected does not negate persecution - Just look to the Jews to see the meaning. They are still here, even while being the single most persecuted people on the planet...
I am assuming the ignorance about this is due to only joining FR 1/1/2011 and a poor education. I've pinged these additional posters because I know they are knowledgeable about the topic if there is a desire to learn. What I suggest is look up the names I list and see.
The Donatists
The Pailicians
The Albigenses
The Paterines
The Petrobrussians
The Arnoldists
The Waldenses
The Anabaptists
I know there are more, but these were the ones that came to mind right away. I did not include Christian churches prior to the 300's because until the church became part of the state any differences were resolved by disassociation rather than force. One of the key features of the state church was the willingness to kill those that refused to submit to it's authority.
No Catholic will say Catholics don’t pray to Mary, where do you get this stuff from?
i read them all, you would make Bill Clinton blush with the “spin” you put on them, and i am being kind.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Catholics do not teach Mary was transformed into God! Really, where do you get this stuff from? God is eternal, the First and the Last, there was no other God before Him and there will be none after Him! One God, no Mary, get it? is the ninth commandement still in effect?
No, the point you miss is you don’t understand the saints on earth and saints in heaven are all in the same Body of Christ!
LOL! THE Donatists? Really? Look up what they believed and i can assure you, under your theology, they are not “saved”
The other groups have nothing to do with each other , except heresy over time. is that the best you can do?
here’s a quote from the same book, just to show you how you are taking these words and twisting them, from section IV:
“besides the power of the priest surpasses that of the Blessed Virgin, for, although this Divine Mother can pray for us, and by her prayers obtain whatever she wishes, yet she can’t absolve a single Christian from the smallest sin”
Wow, some god she is is, she can’t absolve sin!! that is certainly no god any Catholic will worship, our God can and does absolve sin!
i am not familiar with what he taught, but he was declared a heretic. he came along in the 12th century, so again, by definition, he can’t be the Apostolic Church.
Wow, some god she is is, she can’t absolve sin!! that is certainly no god any Catholic will worship, our God can and does absolve sin!
A priest is not God.
... as opposed to the various Popes declared heretic over the centuries that were categorized as "anti-popes" in hindsight to pretty up the ugly grasping politics of it all in order to create the appearance of Apostolic lineage in your church?
we agree on something!!
now if a priest is not God and the power of the priest surpasses that of Mary accrding to the author quoted by cynicalbear, that would mean Mary isn’t God either!!
i think we are finally making progress here.
now before you respond, please read John 20:21-23. Priests have authority from Jesus Himself.
The Popes are not the Catholic Church. The Church is still here whether there is a Pope or not. Why even worry about Popes, when you deny the fundamentals of the Faith, Baptism, The Eucharist, The Church itself!
The "absolution" of sin, forgiveness really, is obtained via faith in the atoning sacrifice made by Jesus Christ on the cross. No priest grants absolution of sin, particularly through rote recitations of some formulaic set of words or actions performed as "penance."
Repentance is a sincere, heartfelt change that affects both mind and behavior. It's the desire to literally go forth and sin no more, as Jesus himself advised. It's not really possible to be in the flesh and to be sinless, so we fail at this, some much more visibly or reprehensibly than others in our eyes, but we all do.
We're all flawed and fallen, priests and popes included. For this there is forgiveness as well, provided that there is faith and repentance.
In other words, "oooh, look over there!"
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