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Similarities between Mormonism and Scientology
epologetics.org via alma.edu ^ | Dec. 23, 2007

Posted on 01/22/2011 2:19:40 PM PST by Colofornian

* Origins

o Based on entirely unevidenced stories

o Doctrines created and evolved over time, sometimes changing

* Founders

o Known for their extreme desire for wealth

o Known for telling stories and lies

o Convicted and imprisoned for illegal activities

o Died during their trouble with the law

* Legal troubles

o Involved in many illegal activities, in many cases as part of official organization doctrine and practices

o Support destruction of outsiders, especially apostates (blood atonement, shunning, "fair game")

o Legal troubles led to changes in doctrine (at least on the surface, note polygamy and "fair game")

* Teachings

o Pre- and post-mortal existence

o Eternal progression (godhood, clear thetan)

o Only way to know truth is to experience it yourself

o Christianity, Bible only partly true

o Focus on thriving and happiness in present life rather than the afterlife or eternal life

o "Salvation" by works

o Give "milk" instead of "meat"

o Official endorsement of lying about or avoiding discussion of controversial doctrines, especially origin of man and key figures (Heavenly Father, Xenu, spirit children, thetans, etc)

o Levels can be achieved (Operating Thetan levels, temple Mormons, eternal progression, different kingdoms)

o Resistance is dismissed as proof/evidence of validity

* Behavior

o Persecution complex

o Label and treat opposition as evil enemies ("Antis", "Suppressive Persons")


TOPICS: Apologetics; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: inman; lds; mormon; scientology; similarities
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Here's another Web site noting parallels between Mormonism and Scientology:

Similarities:

1. Pre-existence of humanity:
LDS: All humans pre-existed in the spirit world before being born on earth.
Scientology: People were thetans in past lives + belief in reincarnation.

2. Unlimited potential for humans:
LDS: Heavenly Father (God) is an exalted man and LDS men may become gods with omnipotence and omniscience. Scientology: People may become thetans again, regaining their freedom from matter, energy, space, and time (MEST).

3. “Salvation” only through their Church:
LDS: Exaltation and godhood only through the LDS Church.
Scientology: Recovering one’s thetanhood only possible through Church of Scientology.

Source: LDS (Mormonism) and Scientology: A Brief Theological Comparison

Also, in this link, under one of the supposed "differences," I actually see more of a connection...#6 mentions Mormonism's "exaltation to godhood"...Scientologists a "return to Thetanhood" as its "final goal."

1 posted on 01/22/2011 2:19:42 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: hennie pennie

*bookmark*


2 posted on 01/22/2011 2:23:50 PM PST by hennie pennie
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To: hennie pennie

You forgot that both are mentioned a lot in South Park.


3 posted on 01/22/2011 2:24:56 PM PST by Loud Mime (If you don't believe in God, you will believe in government. Choose your "G")
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To: Colofornian

They’re both invented by one man (each I mean).

“Thetan” sounds like Satan with a lisp, btw.


4 posted on 01/22/2011 2:25:25 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: All
The Salt Lake Tribune's Peggy Fletcher Stack -- btw a paper which apparently cannot now be linked to on FR -- published an article Friday about how the Mormon marketing campaign follows a pattern by another cult...guess who?

I wonder if some journalists are seeing other online articles such as: Did the LDS Church model their ads after Scientology’s?

Or perhaps this posting board of ex-Scientologists!
Hey! I might be a Mormon!!!

The first poster of this second above-linked thread said a year ago:

Fascinating approach for the cults to try and overcome crushing negative public perception.
* Make it look all technicolor lovely and normal
* Interview a person who believes they are dedicated to a good cause to help mankind
* Stay away from the crazeeeeeee beliefs.
* Make it all sound all simple and common sense.
* Hey, it works! Hey it's spiritual! Hey it can help you! Hey it's fun!
* Hey, read a book!
These scripted, orchestrated propaganda pieces use innocent dupes to lure unsuspecting victims.

5 posted on 01/22/2011 2:25:57 PM PST by Colofornian ( Life isn't FAIR!)
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To: Colofornian; Elsie

Wheres the pic of the Scientology Kittehs ???


6 posted on 01/22/2011 2:31:13 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: All

An “obvious” similarity is that both were rooted in sci-fi novelists (L. Ron Hubbard & Joseph Smith) writing “novels”...Smith’s was simply put, The Book of Mormon.


7 posted on 01/22/2011 2:32:12 PM PST by Colofornian ( Life isn't FAIR!)
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To: Colofornian

I’ve seen a lot of parallels between Scientology and Satanism.


8 posted on 01/22/2011 2:34:24 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Colofornian
IB4PD-SPAMLINKS! but my unofficial links already addressed that!!!!!
9 posted on 01/22/2011 2:42:20 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: All
Also, L. Ron Hubbard could have easily substituted Kolob for Venus in his religion.

According to Scientology, when a person dies — or, in Scientology terms, when a thetan abandons its physical body — they go to a "landing station" on the planet Venus, where the thetan is re-implanted and told lies about its past life and its next life. The Venusians take the thetan, "capsule" it, and send it back to Earth to be dumped into the ocean off the coast of California.
Source: Thetan (Wikipedia

Seems to me that, per the Mormon myth narrative, when when an earthling is becoming "encapsuled" they leave from a "launching station" on the planet Kolob, where the Mormon spirit is implanted inside a human body, and once born with a Mormon family, the Mormon is told lies about its past life and its next life. The Mormon gods take the Mormon, "capsule" it in that body, and send it to Earth to be dumped at age 8 into the Mormon baptismal founts off of many international coasts.

10 posted on 01/22/2011 2:42:27 PM PST by Colofornian ( Life isn't FAIR!)
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To: Colofornian

And really funny South Park shows about bof uv ‘em.


11 posted on 01/22/2011 2:42:41 PM PST by flowerplough (Thomas Sowell: Those who look only at Obama's deeds tend to become Obama's critics.)
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To: Colofornian

When I was still in school, I used to read pulp SF magazines.

I remember that one of them included a letter to the editor from L. Ron Hubbard, explaining why he wasn’t submitting any more stories.

What he said, basically, was that he planned to start a new religion, because he could make a lot more money that way than he could writing SF stories.

If there is a resemblance between the two founders, presumably it is because Hubbard looked at Joseph Smith and the LDS and decided it would provide him with a very useful model for a successful religion. He gave it an SF twist, because that was what he was good at, and it probably amused him.


12 posted on 01/22/2011 2:46:03 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Colofornian; All
Seems to me that, per the Mormon myth narrative, when an earthling is becoming "encapsuled" they leave from a "launching station" on the planet Kolob, where the Mormon spirit is implanted inside a human body, and once born with a Mormon family, the Mormon is told lies about its past life and its next life. The Mormon gods take the Mormon, "capsule" it in that body, and send it to Earth to be dumped at age 8 into the Mormon baptismal founts off of many international coasts.

Then, when the Mormons want to send deceased spirits on ahead back to Kolob from which they originated, they go to over 130 launching stations around the world -- baptismal tanks located in temples. There, they coerce teen-agers & young adults to get dunked on behalf of these dead spirits...once their records have been genealogically id'd & a sponsor found...

Hmmm...

What does it matter that L. Ron Hubbard is dead?

I say, just transfer the Mormon narrative over to his series of novels and just pick up where Hubbard left off!

13 posted on 01/22/2011 2:47:46 PM PST by Colofornian ( Life isn't FAIR!)
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To: PetroniusMaximus

I’ve seen a lot of parallels between Scientology and Satanism.

I've seen a lot of parallels between Mormonism and Satanism (and the Occult), especially in their temple ceremonies, their architecture, and Joseph's frequent use of a peep stone.

14 posted on 01/22/2011 2:48:58 PM PST by Zakeet (Always trust in the five G's: God, Gold, Guns, Grub, and the Government screwing up)
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To: Colofornian

I cannot look at Greta anymore without thinking, here’s a seemingly intelligent woman, who believes Scientology.


15 posted on 01/22/2011 2:52:37 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Don't tell Obama what comes after a trillion)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
I’ve seen a lot of parallels between Scientology and Satanism.

You should do a web search on "Frater H" who was apparently none other than L. Ron Hubbard, if the very many sites purporting to cover his pre-Scientology days have even a grain of truth to them.

16 posted on 01/22/2011 2:53:00 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Graybeard58
>>>> "I cannot look at Greta anymore without thinking, here's a seemingly intelligent woman, who believes Scientology." <<<<

No kidding - only person I actually listen to on FOX is M.Kelly; I was amazed when Greta came to FOX and other FOX personalities were standing up for her and treating the cult scientology as if it were mainstream Christianity.

I feel sorry for her.

17 posted on 01/22/2011 3:01:58 PM PST by hennie pennie
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To: Cicero
If there is a resemblance between the two founders, presumably it is because Hubbard looked at Joseph Smith and the LDS and decided it would provide him with a very useful model for a successful religion. He gave it an SF twist, because that was what he was good at, and it probably amused him.

Well, Hubbard did have to "twist" any sci-fi that Mormon leaders hadn't already done before him -- just a lot less detail.

For example:

* Lds "prophet" Brigham Young: Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? ...when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain.
Source: Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 271...1870 -- so keep in mind, Young had already been leading the Lds church for over 25 years or so when he made this comment -- including around 25 years as its "prophet."

Brigham Young's first counselor was "apostle" Heber C. Kimball: "Where did the earth come from? From its parents earths...The earth is alive. If it was not, it could not produce." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 36, 1857)

BTW, where did Brigham Young get his "source" re: the habitation of the moon?

Oliver B. Huntington: Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a prophet. As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do--that they live generally near the age of 1000 years. He described the men as averaging nearly six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style. In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet in Kirtland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and--to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can not behold with your eyes. The first two promises have been fulfilled, and the latter may be verified. From the verification of the two promises we may reasonably expect the third to be fulfilled also. (Source: Young Woman's Journal, Vol. 3, pp. 263-264, 1892)

18 posted on 01/22/2011 3:13:47 PM PST by Colofornian ( Life isn't FAIR!)
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To: Colofornian

IB4PDSPAM


19 posted on 01/22/2011 3:39:14 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla

Great Dane to the Rescue!

20 posted on 01/22/2011 3:46:13 PM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: hennie pennie
here's a seemingly intelligent woman, who believes Mormonism.

This is what I think for every intelligent Mormon woman I have ever known. Men too.

21 posted on 01/22/2011 3:55:17 PM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Loud Mime

LOL!


22 posted on 01/22/2011 3:55:56 PM PST by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: Utah Binger; greyfoxx39; Godzilla; Elsie
WHY would you EVER direct that comment to me???

I never said anything that you are attributing to me. I consider mormonism to be a cult, just like Scientology is a C-U-L-T, and I feel very sorry for Greta van Susteren that she & her husband belong to, and believe in, a C=U=L=T.

I'm considering joing the Cult of Christian Science, but only because then I can legally OPT OUT of obamacare, NOT because I'm a true believer, LOL, NOT because I'm a cultist.

23 posted on 01/22/2011 4:01:44 PM PST by hennie pennie
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To: hennie pennie

Sorry, I misunderstood. Please forgive me for my insensitive behavior. I’ll never post such a vile thing again. LOL


24 posted on 01/22/2011 4:14:45 PM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Godzilla

“IB4PDSPAM”

Maybe PD will post something else for a change other than the List-O-Links


25 posted on 01/22/2011 4:22:19 PM PST by PeachyKeen
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To: PeachyKeen
...will post something else for a change other than the List-O-Links

(Perhaps the bot's in the shop...WD-40 administration or somethin')

26 posted on 01/22/2011 4:43:23 PM PST by Colofornian ( Life isn't FAIR!)
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To: PeachyKeen
Maybe PD will post something else for a change other than the List-O-Links

While we are wishing - how about something that has a better chance of happening, like flying unicorns and global peace.

27 posted on 01/22/2011 5:46:36 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Colofornian; PeachyKeen; Godzilla
...will post something else for a change other than the List-O-Links

Righthaven HAS been notified!

28 posted on 01/22/2011 6:11:53 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Godzilla

LOL! BTW....I want to thank you and the “gang” for putting all of this info out. I was affected by my almost husband many years ago. I could not understand how he could join lds..of course, he tried to get me to convert also. That was the end of us. I have learned so more about my own Christianity and I really have you all to thank!


29 posted on 01/22/2011 6:13:28 PM PST by PeachyKeen
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To: All
Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their former Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, quote and straw man attack that. Almost without fail you will see examples of this following this post.

Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think. So again, seek the truth. They aren't providing it. Use your God-given brain and discernment.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 


30 posted on 01/22/2011 6:14:24 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: PeachyKeen

Maybe PD will post something else for a change other than the List-O-Links


Nah I’ll stick with the truth. Just like some folks stick with anti-Mormon propaganda. 2 sides of a coin. Opposition in all things.


31 posted on 01/22/2011 6:20:18 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Utah Binger

LOL @ Utah Binger, I am so SORRY, as obviously I am the one who misunderstood what YOU wrote, and not vice verse; I just ~’s’h’i’v’e’r’~ when I see some of the people who have succombed to cults, it is simply chilling..... and I realize now that it’s been years since I’ve considered Greta van Susteren to be ... intelligent.


32 posted on 01/22/2011 6:22:31 PM PST by hennie pennie
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To: little jeremiah

ROFLOL!!


33 posted on 01/22/2011 6:34:14 PM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Paragon Defender
An Open Letter to Mormons who are
sincere about their faith...
 
(and embarrassed by the posts of self-styled
"defender-mormons who can't defend")
 
If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums
you will notice a pattern. There’s a group of
Christians who spend a great deal of time posting
from Official Mormon Sources - both the Book of
Mormon as well as Mormon Prophets and Church
materials - real quotes from real mormon materials.
 
You will also notice that many of these Christians
are former Mormons who left Mormonism and come to
know the Biblical Jesus Christ and His Gospel of Grace.
 
They have a passion to reach Mormons to share what
they learned about Salvation by grace and apart
from the never ending treadmill of human works...
 
Of course, they are attacked regularly by a very,
small group of Mormons who have zeal, but no real
knowledge beyond what the Mormon Church has told
them. You've seen this with your own eyes on this
thread and others, so I'm not telling you anything
you don't already know.
 
Why can't these so-called "defenders" provide any:
 
… Objective Facts
… Objective Evidence
… Or Logical support
 
Anything OBJECTIVE that any reasonable person would
see and agree that it lends support the claims of
Mormonism.
 
Why can't they do this?
 
If Mormonism is true, why is it based only on
subjective feelings and why doesn't it have the
same kind of objective support the Bible does?
 
Has God changed?
 
Is He no longer able to weave His story into history,
into the fabric of human DNA, into the findings of
archeology, and into geography? Do you believe He has
become powerless?
 
I bet you do not believe that.
 
So why would God provide every kind of objective support
for the Bible's rich history and none for the Book of
Mormon? Why?
 
These "defenders" post links over and over again that
“address” things yet never provide an answer that is
buttressed by the ring of truth, echoed by history,
archeology, genetics, geography, etc.
 
If they could support the claims of Mormonism with facts,
you know they would. But it never happens here. You may
be new to these threads, but I've read almost every one
for the past 6 years. I can tell you that it is always
the same as this thread. No facts, no evidence, no logical
argument. 
 
People deserve more than subjective feelings and useless
links to non-answers.
 
You deserve more than feelings and hollow links.
 
After reading both sides on this thread and others,
you may very well be wondering about what you were
taught when you joined the LDS church. You also may
be wondering how to resolve the lack of facts, evidence
and logical suport for Mormonism's claims.
 
You are not alone in wondering this.
 
Many have approached those of us who are Christians
asking where to find out more and some, even, to ask
how to come to know the Biblical Christ and some even how
to gracefully leave Mormonism and start a new life with
Christ.
 
Many here have already set out to finally and joyfully know
the true God and Savior. They understand the terrible choice
of being totally sincere about your faith, but increasingly
concerned that it isn't everything you once believed and hoped
for.

After coming to know the truth, they are on a path that gives
them the rest God promised to His children and the certainty
of His ultimate plan for them. Nothing brings them greater joy
than helping a friend who has the same questions.
 
There are places online that you can visit to learn more about
Mormonism.
 
If something is true, it can withstand any question, no matter
how tough. If it is false, it is better to know while your life
is in front of you. You can read these resources without fear.
 
http://www.irr.org/mit/default.html
http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/
http://4mormon.org/ex-mormon.php
http://www.exmormon.org/
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/
 
Links may raise more questions and concerns and sometimes it
helps to have someone who has already wrestled through these
issues.
 
I invite you to private FReep-mail any of the Christians
on this thread to ask questions about the concerns you have.
 
We always do our best to directly answer your questions with
facts, evidence and logical support.
 
Take a step.
 
Roll the dice.
 
What do you have to lose at this point? And you have much to
gain. 
 
There is peace and rest waiting for you.
 
 
All the Best,
ampu

34 posted on 01/22/2011 7:18:59 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Osage Orange

It’s actually verrrry significant...


35 posted on 01/22/2011 7:22:00 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Paragon Defender

Mormon/Scientology ping


36 posted on 01/22/2011 9:17:50 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: Paragon Defender
Nah I’ll stick with the truth.

HA ha!

You'll stick with tossing out your HAYSTACKS (where have I heard THAT before?) of questionable information; hoping to lose the questioner in a blizzard of NON-relevant data.

Reminds me of a bomber ejecting chaff; hoping to deflect an incoming AIM-9.

37 posted on 01/23/2011 4:19:05 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Paragon Defender
 
Paragon:
 
Are you assured of your salvation?
 



The Mormon cannot be sure because eternal life (known in Mormonism as exaltation or godhood) is based on the individual's personal righteousness.

 In the words of twelfth LDS President Spencer W. Kimball,

"... however powerful the saving grace of Christ, it brings exaltation to no man who does not comply with the works of the gospel"

(The Miracle of Forgiveness, pg. 207). 

38 posted on 01/23/2011 4:24:03 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: hennie pennie
 
 
THE BOOK OF MOSIAH
CHAPTER 15
How Christ is both the Father and the Son—He shall make intercession and bear the transgressions of his people—They and all the holy prophets are his seed—He bringeth to pass the resurrection—Little children have eternal life. About 148 B.C.
 
  1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that aGod himself shall bcome down among the children of men, and shall credeem his people.
  2 And because he adwelleth in bflesh he shall be called the cSon of God, and having subjected the flesh to the dwill of the eFather, being the Father and the Son—
  3 The Father, abecause he was bconceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
  4 And they are aone God, yea, the very bEternal cFather of heaven and of earth.
  5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, asuffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and bscourged, and cast out, and disowned by his cpeople.
 
  6 And after all this, after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even aas Isaiah said, as a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he bopened not his mouth.
  7 Yea, even so he shall be led, acrucified, and slain, the bflesh becoming subject even unto death, the cwill of the Son being swallowed up in the will of the Father.
  8 And thus God breaketh the abands of death, having gained the bvictory over death; giving the Son power to make cintercession for the children of men—
  9 Having ascended into heaven, having the bowels of mercy; being filled with compassion towards the children of men; standing betwixt them and justice; having broken the bands of death, taken upon ahimself their iniquity and their transgressions, having redeemed them, and bsatisfied the demands of justice.
  10 And now I say unto you, who shall declare his ageneration? Behold, I say unto you, that when his soul has been made an offering for bsin he shall see his cseed. And now what say ye? And who shall be his seed?
  11 Behold I say unto you, that whosoever has heard the words of the aprophets, yea, all the holy prophets who have prophesied concerning the coming of the Lord—I say unto you, that all those who have hearkened unto their words, and believed that the Lord would redeem his people, and have looked forward to that day for a remission of their sins, I say unto you, that these are his seed, or they are the heirs of the bkingdom of God.
  12 For these are they whose sins ahe has borne; these are they for whom he has died, to redeem them from their transgressions. And now, are they not his seed?
  13 Yea, and are not the aprophets, every one that has opened his mouth to prophesy, that has not fallen into transgression, I mean all the holy prophets ever since the world began? I say unto you that they are his seed.
  14 And these are athey who have published peace, who have brought good btidings of good, who have cpublished salvation; and said unto Zion: Thy God reigneth!
  15 And O how beautiful upon the mountains were their feet!
  16 And again, how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of those that are still publishing peace!
  17 And again, how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of those who shall hereafter publish peace, yea, from this time henceforth and forever!
  18 And behold, I say unto you, this is not all. For O how beautiful upon the mountains are the afeet of him that bringeth good tidings, that is the founder of bpeace, yea, even the Lord, who has redeemed his people; yea, him who has granted salvation unto his people;
  19 For were it not for the redemption which he hath made for his people, which was prepared from the afoundation of the world, I say unto you, were it not for this, all mankind must have bperished.
  20 But behold, the bands of death shall be broken, and the Son reigneth, and hath power over the dead; therefore, he bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead.
  21 And there cometh a resurrection, even a afirst resurrection; yea, even a resurrection of those that have been, and who are, and who shall be, even until the resurrection of Christ—for so shall he be called.
  22 And now, the resurrection of all the prophets, and all those that have believed in their words, or all those that have kept the commandments of God, shall come forth in the first resurrection; therefore, they are the first resurrection.
  23 They are raised to adwell with God who has redeemed them; thus they have eternal life through Christ, who has bbroken the bands of death.
  24 And these are those who have part in the first resurrection; and these are they that have died before Christ came, in their ignorance, not having asalvation declared unto them. And thus the Lord bringeth about the restoration of these; and they have a part in the first resurrection, or have eternal life, being redeemed by the Lord.
  25 And little achildren also have eternal life.
  26 But behold, and afear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth none such that brebel against him and cdie in their sins; yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; dthese are they that have eno part in the first fresurrection.
  27 Therefore ought ye not to tremble? For salvation cometh to none such; for the Lord hath redeemed none such; yea, neither can the Lord redeem such; for he cannot deny himself; for he cannot deny ajustice when it has its claim.
  28 And now I say unto you that the time shall come that the asalvation of the Lord shall be declared to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people.
  29 Yea, Lord, athy bwatchmen shall lift up their voice; with the voice together shall they sing; for they shall see eye to eye, when the Lord shall bring again Zion.
  30 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem; for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
  31 The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the asalvation of our God.
 

39 posted on 01/23/2011 4:25:57 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
 
Grace that is earned is no longer grace but works.

Galatians 3
 
 1.  You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
 2.  I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
 3.  Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
 4.  Have you suffered so much for nothing--if it really was for nothing?
 5.  Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
 6.  Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
 7.  Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.
 8.  The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."
 9.  So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
 10.  All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
 11.  Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."
 12.  The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."
 13.  Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
 14.  He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
 15.  Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.
 16.  The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed,"  meaning one person, who is Christ.
 17.  What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
 18.  For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
 19.  What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.
 20.  A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
 21.  Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
 22.  But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
 23.  Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
 24.  So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ  that we might be justified by faith .
 25.  Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.


40 posted on 01/23/2011 4:27:15 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
 

 
 
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541
 
 

#3.  We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
 
 

41 posted on 01/23/2011 4:30:15 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
CHRIST is a GREEK word - meaning MESSIAH.
 
Isn't it AMAZING that in is found, written on Golden Plates, in the language of Reformed Egyptian?
 



THE BOOK OF ALMA
THE SON OF ALMA
 
CHAPTER 46
 
Amalickiah conspires to be king—Moroni raises the title of liberty—He rallies the people to defend their religion—True believers are called Christians—A remnant of Joseph shall be preserved—Amalickiah and the dissenters flee to the land of Nephi—Those who will not support the cause of freedom are put to death. Between 73 and 72 B.C.
 
  1 And it came to pass that as many as would not hearken to the awords of Helaman and his brethren were gathered together against their brethren.
  2 And now behold, they were exceedingly wroth, insomuch that they were determined to slay them.
  3 Now the leader of those who were wroth against their brethren was a large and a strong man; and his name was aAmalickiah.
  4 And Amalickiah was desirous to be a aking; and those people who were wroth were also desirous that he should be their king; and they were the greater part of them the lower bjudges of the land, and they were seeking for power.
  5 And they had been led by the aflatteries of Amalickiah, that if they would support him and establish him to be their king that he would make them rulers over the people.
  6 Thus they were led away by Amalickiah to dissensions, notwithstanding the preaching of Helaman and his brethren, yea, notwithstanding their exceedingly great care over the church, for they were ahigh priests over the church.
  7 And there were many in the church who believed in the aflattering words of Amalickiah, therefore they bdissented even from the church; and thus were the affairs of the people of Nephi exceedingly precarious and dangerous, notwithstanding their great cvictory which they had had over the Lamanites, and their great rejoicings which they had had because of their ddeliverance by the hand of the Lord.
  8 Thus we see how aquick the children of men do bforget the Lord their God, yea, how quick to do ciniquity, and to be led away by the evil one.
  9 Yea, and we also see the great awickedness one very wicked man can cause to take place among the children of men.
  10 Yea, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly; yea, and to seek to adestroy the church of God, and to destroy the foundation of bliberty which God had granted unto them, or which blessing God had sent upon the face of the land for the crighteous’ sake.
  11 And now it came to pass that when Moroni, who was the achief commander of the armies of the Nephites, had heard of these dissensions, he was angry with Amalickiah.
  12 And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—aIn memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.
  13 And he fastened on his head-plate, and his abreastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the btitle of liberty) and he cbowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of dChristians remain to possess the land—
  14 For thus were all the true believers of Christ, who belonged to the church of God, called by those who did not belong to the church.
  15 And those who did belong to the church were afaithful; yea, all those who were true believers in Christ btook upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or cChristians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come.
  16 And therefore, at this time, Moroni prayed that the cause of the Christians, and the afreedom of the land might be favored.
  17 And it came to pass that when he had poured out his soul to God, he named all the land which was asouth of the land bDesolation, yea, and in fine, all the land, both on the cnorth and on the south—A chosen land, and the land of dliberty.
  18 And he said: Surely God shall not asuffer that we, who are despised because we take upon us the name of Christ, shall be trodden down and destroyed, until we bring it upon us by our own btransgressions.
  19 And when Moroni had said these words, he went forth among the people, waving the arent part of his garment in the air, that all might see the writing which he had written upon the rent part, and crying with a loud voice, saying:
  20 Behold, whosoever will maintain this title upon the land, let them come forth in the strength of the Lord, and aenter into a covenant that they will bmaintain their rights, and their religion, that the Lord God may bless them.
  21 And it came to pass that when Moroni had proclaimed these words, behold, the people came running atogether with their armor girded about their loins, brending their garments in token, or as a ccovenant, that they would not forsake the Lord their God; or, in other words, if they should transgress the commandments of God, or fall into transgression, and be dashamed to take upon them the name of Christ, the Lord should rend them even as they had rent their garments.
  22 Now this was the covenant which they made, and they acast their garments at the feet of Moroni, saying: We bcovenant with our God, that we shall be destroyed, even as our brethren in the land northward, if we shall fall into transgression; yea, he may cast us at the feet of our enemies, even as we have cast our garments at thy feet to be trodden under foot, if we shall fall into transgression.
  23 Moroni said unto them: Behold, we are a aremnant of the seed of Jacob; yea, we are a remnant of the seed of bJoseph, whose ccoat was rent by his brethren into many pieces; yea, and now behold, let us remember to keep the commandments of God, or our garments shall be rent by our brethren, and we be cast into prison, or be sold, or be slain.
  24 Yea, let us preserve our liberty as a aremnant of Joseph; yea, let us remember the words of Jacob, before his death, for behold, he saw that a bpart of the cremnant of the coat of Joseph was dpreserved and had not decayed. And he said—Even as this remnant of garment of my son hath been preserved, so shall a eremnant of the seed of my son be preserved by the hand of God, and be taken unto himself, while the remainder of the seed of Joseph shall perish, even as the remnant of his garment.
  25 Now behold, this giveth my soul sorrow; nevertheless, my soul hath joy in my son, because of that part of his seed which shall be taken unto God.
  26 Now behold, this was the language of Jacob.
  27 And now who knoweth but what the remnant of the seed of Joseph, which shall perish as his garment, are those who have dissented from us? Yea, and even it shall be ourselves if we do not stand fast in the faith of Christ.
  28 And now it came to pass that when Moroni had said these words he went forth, and also sent forth in all the parts of the land where there were dissensions, and gathered together all the people who were desirous to maintain their liberty, to stand against Amalickiah and those who had dissented, who were called Amalickiahites.
  29 And it came to pass that when Amalickiah saw that the people of Moroni were more numerous than the Amalickiahites—and he also saw that his people were adoubtful concerning the justice of the cause in which they had undertaken—therefore, fearing that he should not gain the point, he took those of his people who would and departed into the bland of Nephi.
  30 Now Moroni thought it was not expedient that the Lamanites should have any more astrength; therefore he thought to cut off the people of Amalickiah, or to take them and bring them back, and put Amalickiah to death; yea, for he knew that he would stir up the Lamanites to anger against them, and cause them to come to battle against them; and this he knew that Amalickiah would do that he might obtain his purposes.
  31 Therefore Moroni thought it was expedient that he should take his armies, who had gathered themselves together, and armed themselves, and entered into a covenant to keep the peace—and it came to pass that he took his army and marched out with his tents into the wilderness, to cut off the course of Amalickiah in the wilderness.
  32 And it came to pass that he did according to his desires, and marched forth into the wilderness, and headed the armies of Amalickiah.
  33 And it came to pass that Amalickiah afled with a small number of his men, and the remainder were delivered up into the hands of Moroni and were taken back into the land of Zarahemla.
  34 Now, Moroni being a man who was aappointed by the chief judges and the voice of the people, therefore he had power according to his will with the armies of the Nephites, to establish and to exercise authority over them.
  35 And it came to pass that whomsoever of the Amalickiahites that would not enter into a covenant to support the acause of freedom, that they might maintain a free bgovernment, he caused to be put to death; and there were but few who denied the covenant of freedom.
  36 And it came to pass also, that he caused the atitle of liberty to be hoisted upon every tower which was in all the land, which was possessed by the Nephites; and thus Moroni planted the standard of liberty among the Nephites.
  37 And they began to have peace again in the land; and thus they did maintain peace in the land until nearly the *end of the nineteenth year of the reign of the judges.
  38 And Helaman and the ahigh priests did also maintain order in the church; yea, even for the space of four years did they have much peace and rejoicing in the church.
  39 And it came to pass that there were many who died, firmly abelieving that their souls were redeemed by the Lord Jesus Christ ; thus they went out of the world rejoicing.
  40 And there were some who died with fevers, which at some seasons of the year were very frequent in the land—but not so much so with fevers, because of the excellent qualities of the many aplants and roots which God had prepared to remove the cause of bdiseases, to which men were subject by the nature of the climate—
  41 But there were many who died with aold age; and those who died in the faith of Christ are bhappy in him, as we must needs suppose.
 
* VERSE 37 (72 B.C.).

 

42 posted on 01/23/2011 4:39:29 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: gleeaikin
Mormon/Scientology ping

Did SOMEone say 'science'??


 
 
THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 16
 
The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
 
  1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
  4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
  5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
  10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
  11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
  12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
  13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
  14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
  15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
  16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
  17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
  18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
  19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
  21 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
  24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
  26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
  34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

43 posted on 01/23/2011 4:58:47 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
 
 
 1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
  4 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
  5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
  10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
  11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
  12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
  13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
  14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
  15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
  16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
  17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
  18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
  19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
  21 Now  it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
  24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
  26 And it came to pass  that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
  34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

44 posted on 01/23/2011 5:11:47 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
 
 
 1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
  4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
  5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi,  took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
 10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
 11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
 12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
 13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
 14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
 15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
 16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
 17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
 18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
 19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
  21 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
  24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
  26 And it came to pass  that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
  34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

45 posted on 01/23/2011 5:18:27 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
 

These "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.
 
 No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim... only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.


 

Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.


Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:



     .
 

     .
 

      .
 



What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.


 

46 posted on 01/23/2011 5:22:24 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Paragon Defender

Do you want to know the truth more than you want Mormonism to be true? You won't find it at those links because if the 'church' isn't true, they won't tell you. For instance - What kind of chariots did the Nephites have in 90 B.C. some 1500 years before the introduction of the wheel on the Western Hemisphere? (Alma 18:9).

47 posted on 01/23/2011 6:54:27 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Paragon Defender; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; ...
Photobucket
48 posted on 01/23/2011 9:28:11 AM PST by greyfoxx39 ("Journalists" see no problem with fueling a mass panic over our "political discourse.")
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To: Paragon Defender

If the readers eliminate the anti-Christian sites and the unofficial lds sites - you have posted nothing.


49 posted on 01/23/2011 9:53:39 AM PST by svcw (God doesn't show up in our time, but He shows up on time)
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To: greyfoxx39

50 posted on 01/23/2011 10:16:28 AM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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