Posted on 02/14/2011 11:02:10 AM PST by Paragon Defender
place marker
PD could you also provide links to the other eight versions of the first vision. Thanks.
So this was your daily work for your father, Parsimonious Defrauder. Can we expect you, as the best witness for the blasphemies of LDS, to post one of these pieces per day now? ... It’s Tuesday morning and I haven’t yet run across your today’s devilish deceit.
Yes there are, however, you still fail to answer my question - even the basic IRON smelting processes leave waste materials, in addition to steel. And steel still requires a more advanced knowledge of metallurgy than is evident in the Americas during the bom times. Again, FARM/Maxwell tries to claim that the 'steel' of the bom is actually wood clubs with obsidian chips embedded in it - that cannot be covered by ANY 'metal' in the family called steel.
So what precious materials in that list were not used bm?
Stick to the point bm - we are talking about this so-called temple duplicate nephi built. What "precious things" were not used that are not covered in the preceeding verse.
vs 15 states that there was an abundance of precious things like gold, etc available to build buildings with.
vs 16 states that ‘precious things’ could not be used because they could not be found.
What ‘precious things’ were missing that aren’t covered in vs 15?
And your reference being . . . . . . .
Or Art or Bob, or Phil or.....
Anything but Sue!
Steaming in a hot tub?
Stew
PD could you also provide links to the other eight versions of the first vision. Thanks.
|
|
|||||||
| Version Number When Published Brief Description |
Age Year |
Pillar of light |
No. of Person- ages |
Father Present |
Son Present |
Question: Join What Sect? |
Remarks-References |
|
1. Official version, written 1838,
first Published 1842
(There are minor differences between the various source references,
Ensign Jan 1985, page 14)
|
14
1820 |
yes | 2 |
yes
Both spoke |
yes |
Join none |
Lucy, Hyrum, Samuel, Sophronia join the Presbyterian Church - JSH, pages 49-50, 1981 edition;
Times & Seasons, March, April 1842;
Ensign Jan. 1985, page 14;
Joseph Smith's First Vision by
Milton V. Backamn, Bookcraft, 1971, 1980, Appendix C, page 160f
|
| 2. Dictated by Smith to F.G. Williams, Summer to Nov. 1832 | 14 or 15 | yes |
1 | no |
yes Saw Lord, He "spoke" |
No question,
told "None doeth good",
sins forgiven
|
Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appendix A, page 155f |
|
3. Written by Smith,
his 1832 diary,
in his own hand
|
15 |
yes |
1 |
no |
yes Saw the Lord Jesus Christ |
No question,
told sins forgiven,
all do no good
|
Ensign, Dec. 1984, pages 24-26; ibid, Jan. 1985, page 11 |
|
4. Smith's diary of 1835,
recorded by
Warren Cowdery,
Nov. 9, 1835, conversation of Smith with Joshua
|
About 14 |
yes |
One, then another like unto first |
?
|
?
Second spoke, saw many angels
|
No questions,
told sins forgiven,
Jesus is Son
|
Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appen. B |
|
5. Letter form Smith to
John Wentworth,
editor of Chicago Democrat
|
none |
no |
2 |
? They spoke |
? |
No Question |
Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appendix D;
Ensign, Jan 1985, page 16;
Times & Seasons, Vol 3, pages 706-707, March 1, 1842
|
|
6. Early church leaders
Brigham Young, G.A.Smith,
John Taylor
|
15 |
no |
1 Saw an angel, and asked the angel |
no |
no |
Join none |
See Journal of Discourses,
2:17;
18:239;
13:77, 78;
20:167;
12:333, 334.
|
Here are a couple of links where the mormons dismiss the various versions. What I find interesting is that if I had seen God or Jesus or an angel or John the Baptist or whoever, would remember every single detail and the version would never vary.
http://www.mormontimes.com/article/554/Joseph-Smiths-memory-of-the-First-Vision
http://lds.org/study/topics/accounts-of-the-first-vision?lang=eng
I don’t disagree. THere are much bigger issues right now.
I don’t disagree. THere are much bigger issues right now.
If you loved them, you would treat them with respect. Even if we/they are in error, your approach hurts them and turns them off. Jesus did not behave like you. He taught out of love.
I am a convert to the church. I admit, there are times when religion still confuses me. Am I right? Are you right? It’s hard to discern sometimes.
But I know this. No Mormom EVER made fun of other churches or doctrines like I have seen here.
That tells me a lot right there. If God were truly in your heart, you would reach out in love, not derision.
And Jesus once, while admonishing the Pharisees who were EVER SO SURE that the Samaritans were all going to hell, (and they of course to heaven), said, “I am able from these rocks and stones to raise up children of Israel.”
So turned off was he by the Pharisees assurance of their “godliness” that he used the example of the “GOOD Samaritan” and the Pharisee and the Publican—another group the “godly” despised to turn the tables on them. You don’t earn your salvation folks-—you get it through God’s mercy. SOme of you sound a bit too convinced of yourselves for my tastes. In fact,I would dare say some of you sound to me just like modern-day Pharisees.
Thank you. One of the first examples of kindness and gentleness. Two traits Jesus showed amply. I would much rather here what YOu have to say, than the Pharisees.
Point out to me where I said, "earn our salvation". That's a Mormon concept, not mine and not biblical.
As far as being "convinced" of my salvation, that is correct, I am absolutely convinced.
YOU however, hear the gospel of grace here and apparently prefer your own works of righteousness that can lead you to hell. What will you do?
Sounds very judgmental to me since you know NOTHING about me. How can you say that I prefer my own works of righteousness? Do you folks not realize how similar you sound to Islmaic radicals? Sure you don’t stoop to violence, but some of you are just as condeming.
I would never stoop to judge you in that mannner. God clearly tells us that judgment is for HIM alone.
No judgment from me - just observation based on your self-identification as a Mormon. Mormonism is a works based cult. There is no salvation in your works.
If despite your involvement in the cult, you are an actual Christian - come out from among them and be holy.
I wish you the best
Ampu
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.