Posted on 02/17/2011 7:35:48 AM PST by verdugo
I have very good friends while they are charismatic, which is praising God and receiving gifts of the Holy Spirit, they are VERY ORTHODOXY. They go to Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, confession regularly, very disciplined Christians and good Catholics striving for Holiness with the help of our Lord. Some people in these groups just learn about the Holy Spirit and pray, then there are some who are different. I went to a healing service which was praying over people by a healer, people would come up front with a line going across the front of the church and then each would be prayed over. Now when I watched people going down on the floor it was like whoa, slain in the spirit they called it! Then my husband and his friend and myself went up front to be prayed over I kept my eye on the Nun near me and my husband next to me. All these people were going down but I was skeptical and was afraid this was not of God. Everyone in the line went down but me! When she prayed over me I felt a tremendous sensation but I would not let myself go down to the floor, I was discerning. My friend at the time was going blind and that is why we went to the healing service. Neither one of us went down, she got freaked and never went up to be prayed over which is why we were there. So she talked me into going the next night. I prayed before going up there and told the Lord if this is not from you I am not going down so it is up to you. My friend and I were the first to go up and she prayed over me first, I had my feet planted saying it’s up to you Lord, bam next thing I know I was looking up off the floor. It’s hard to explain the feeling because we have to be careful with our emotions that we can allow ourselves to get caught up with but it was a sense of calm, excitement and energy afterward. I do believe in the power of the Holy Spirit especially in the action of the Mass giving us the Holy Eucharist. I cannot speak for others that is not my place but I stay constant in striving for trusting in Jesus for all things.
re:but those who get in a tizzy about other people’s way of praying confuse me.
It’s an internal Catholic discussion. I gather you are a YOPIOS, so I’ll just tell you that it comes from the Catholic interpretation of scripture, and all of Catholic teaching for 1900+ years. All of 1900+ years of Catholic teaching stands united in the constant judgement that the Charismatic Movement is not Catholic, it is heretical like Pentecostalism and all of Protetantism. Therfore, Cathoics have to separate themseves from it.
10 A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid:11 Knowing that he that is such an one is subverted and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment.(Titus 3)
10 If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you. (2 John 1)
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not Christ our Lord but their own belly: and by pleasing speeches and good words seduce the hearts of the innocent. (Rom. 16)
6 I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ,unto another gospel. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 10 ....Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. (Gal 1)
1 Now the Spirit manifestly saith that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error and doctrines of devils, (1Tim 4)
5 For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ. And they will seduce many.11 And many false prophets shall rise and shall seduce many. ...For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. 26 If therefore they shall say to you, Behold he is in the desert: go ye not out. Behold he is in the closets: believe it not.(Mat 24/Mark 13)
It's an internal Catholic discussion. I gather you are a YOPIOS, so I'll just tell you that it comes from the Catholic interpretation of scripture, and all of Catholic teaching for 1900+ years. All of 1900+ years of Catholic teaching stands united in the constant judgment that the Charismatic Movement is not Catholic, it is heretical like Pentecostalism and all of Protestantism. Therefore, Catholics have to separate themselves from it.
10 A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid:11 Knowing that he that is such an one is subverted and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment.(Titus 3)
10 If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you. (2 John 1)
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not Christ our Lord but their own belly: and by pleasing speeches and good words seduce the hearts of the innocent. (Rom. 16)
6 I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ,unto another gospel. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 10 ....Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. (Gal 1)
1 Now the Spirit manifestly saith that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error and doctrines of devils, (1Tim 4)
5 For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ. And they will seduce many.11 And many false prophets shall rise and shall seduce many. ...For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. 26 If therefore they shall say to you, Behold he is in the desert: go ye not out. Behold he is in the closets: believe it not.(Mat 24/Mark 13)
You are amusing.
just another wrong-headed YOB preaching on the internet.
No mission within the church and cant’ tell who is catholic or not using the tools provided here.
Well, I could be Assemblies of God - they practice charismatic prayer - but I just can’t get into the denim skirt thing. I make my long skirts in colored or print cottons.
My mission is to have lots of children, sing, giggle, and teach. If it gets to the point that I’ve done enough of that, I’m sure the Lord will reveal His further plans. I didn’t expect to wind up leading a Spanish choir, but it has certainly been a great blessing and lots of fun.
St. John of the Cross had the crucified Christ appear to him many times, and also many times it was the devil. It got so difficult for him to distinguish which was which, that he asked Our Lord not to appear to him anymore, as he could not distinguish the difference, and he did not need to see the Lord to believe (he did not need signs and wonders, to believe).
You never first asked me if I was a sedevacantes before you commenced to slander me and accused me of being something I am not.
Now, I was genteel enough to ask you if you are a Roman Catholic, and you can't even respond with a stright answer. Your FR "About" page says: RBIEL2 hasn't created an about page. So, I am asking you again:
Are you a Roman Catholic?
You never first asked me if I was a sedevacantes before you commenced to slander me and accused me of being something I am not.
Now, I was genteel enough to ask you if you are a Roman Catholic, and you can't even respond with a stright answer. Your FR "About" page says: RBIEL2 hasn't created an about page. So, I am asking you again:
Are you a Roman Catholic?
The search box and facilities are your friend, sometimes your only friend.
You can’t have a dogmatic religion that has 1960 years of Mortalium Animos, and now the complete opposite.
Pius XI’s Mortalium Animos is in line with 1960 years of antiquity. The whole Ecumenism and Charismatic Movements are a lying novelty!
ST. VINCENT OF LERINS (400-450 AD) CONFESSOR OF THE CHURCH “...if some new contagion were to try to poison no longer a small part of the Church, but all of the Church at the same time, then he will take the greatest care to attach himself to antiquity which, obviously, can no longer be seduced by any lying novelty.” (Commonitorium)
Excerpts from "Mortalium Animos", Encyclical of Pope Pius XI, On Religious Unity, January 6, 1928.
2. A similar object is aimed at by some, in those matters which concern the New Law promulgated by Christ our Lord. For since they hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to have founded on that belief a hope that the nations, although they differ among themselves in certain religious matters, will without much difficulty come to agree as brethren in professing certain doctrines, which form as it were a common basis of the spiritual life. For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission. Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little. turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion.
3. But some are more easily deceived by the outward appearance of good when there is question of fostering unity among all Christians. 4. Is it not right, it is often repeated, indeed, even consonant with duty, that all who invoke the name of Christ should abstain from mutual reproaches and at long last be united in mutual charity? Who would dare to say that he loved Christ, unless he worked with all his might to carry out the desires of Him, Who asked His Father that His disciples might be "one"[1]. And did not the same Christ will that His disciples should be marked out and distinguished from others by this characteristic, namely that they loved one another: "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another"[2]? All Christians, they add, should be as "one": for then they would be much more powerful in driving out the pest of irreligion, which like a serpent daily creeps further and becomes more widely spread, and prepares to rob the Gospel of its strength. These things and others that class of men who are known as pan-Christians continually repeat and amplify; and these men, so far from being quite few and scattered, have increased to the dimensions of an entire class, and have grouped themselves into widely spread societies, most of which are directed by non-Catholics, although they are imbued with varying doctrines concerning the things of faith. This undertaking is so actively promoted as in many places to win for itself the adhesion of a number of citizens, and it even takes possession of the minds of very many Catholics and allures them with the hope of bringing about such a union as would be agreeable to the desires of Holy Mother Church, who has indeed nothing more at heart than to recall her erring sons and to lead them back to her bosom. But in reality beneath these enticing words and blandishments lies hid a most grave error, by which the foundations of the Catholic faith are completely destroyed.
5. Admonished, therefore, by the consciousness of Our Apostolic office that We should not permit the flock of the Lord to be cheated by dangerous fallacies, We invoke, Venerable Brethren, your zeal in avoiding this evil; for We are confident that by the writings and words of each one of you the people will more easily get to know and understand those principles and arguments which We are about to set forth, and from which Catholics will learn how they are to think and act when there is question of those schemes which have for their end the union in one body, whatsoever be the manner, of all who call themselves Christians.
8. This being so, it is clear that the Apostolic See cannot on any terms take part in their assemblies, nor is it anyway lawful for Catholics either to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity, quite alien to the one Church of Christ.
9. These pan-Christians who turn their minds to uniting the churches seem, indeed, to pursue the noblest of ideas in promoting charity among all Christians: nevertheless how does it happen that this charity tends to injure faith? Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment "Love one another," altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt version of Christ's teaching: "If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you"[18]. For which reason, since charity is based on a complete and sincere faith, the disciples of Christ must be united principally by the bond of one faith.
10. So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it. To the one true Church of Christ, we say, which is visible to all, and which is to remain, according to the will of its Author, exactly the same as He instituted it.
_________________________________________________________
Either the ALL popes of 1958 years (= antiquity) were not following Catholic doctrine, or the Vatican II popes are not.
To anyone with "eyes to see", it boils down to that! For, anyone with eyes to see, can see the TOTAL CLASH between Mortalium Animus and the Ecumenism & Charisamtic Movements.
Thanks, but I already have enough friends to last a lifetime, and more added every day. I ask you for the third and last time:
Are you a Roman Catholic?
I'm sorry you feel you have to use the Internet to condemn Catholics who are obedient to the Pope (you know, Benedict XVI, not "the Pope of what Verdugo imagines Pius XII would say"). There are plenty of Catholics who are not obedient and are very clear that they are not obedient, but you don't attack them.
A factoid that, incredibly, the Pope and the Bishops in communion with him have failed to grasp.
Are you a Roman Catholic? Who is the Pope of the Catholic Church? Does the "Novus Ordo Missae" of 1970 confect a valid Eucharist, if it is celebrated according to the rubrics? Are priests ordained under the new rite -- again, if celebrated according to the rubrics -- validly ordained?
I thought it was an interesting coincidence, because it is usually the “anti-Everything But My Congregation (which I refuse to identify)” group who feel compelled to opine on other people’s prayer lives. To them, it’s wrong for Catholics to pray the Rosary or ask for saints’ intercession or participate in the formal prayers of the Mass. It’s wrong for other non-Catholics to pray in a way the poster considers “unbiblical,” even if the very words come from the Bible. Other people just aren’t praying *right*, which seems to mean “exactly like me.”
If a person can’t accept the Charismatic movement, then they pretty much have to admit that mystics, gifted priests and gifted laity like or akin to St Pio and others don’t exist and dont participate in solemn prayer groups.
Although the movement has its share of lay loons running around thinking their every thought, page turn and protuberance is something from God. The fact remains that through the Church, God is preparing many now for the times that are coming, and it is through some of these prayer groups that God is preparing.
I hear you.
Thanks.
I want to be Tax-Chick when I grow up.
bump....because I’d LOVE to see the answers to those questions.
If the pope comes out and says it’s heresy, then so it is. If he doesn’t, I don’t see how it hurts anyone.
We aren’t talking about human sacrifice..just some people speaking in tongues and listening to rock music at their churches.
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