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To: Zuriel

The Temple curtain ripped at the entrance to the Holy of Holies, thus allowing direct access to God through Christ (no earthly mediator needed - another difference between Catholics and Protestants.) If water had any “salvific” powers, I’d be covered every time I took a bath! No, in fact, Christ explicitly stated that what is of the flesh is of the flesh, but one must be born again - in Spirit. (I posted this earlier, not sure where though.)


165 posted on 03/10/2011 7:03:34 PM PST by JLLH
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To: JLLH
Like most Protestants, you confuse all physical matter with the flesh. The flesh is corrupted and the source of our sinful nature. That doesn't mean that God doesn't use physical things to affect His plan... such a thought would mean that Christ hanging on the Cross was unnecessary. After all, the physical matter is nothing to the Spiritual. Yet, we were raised to Spiritual life through our Lord's physical death.

Christ baptized His Apostles in the waters of the Jordan. He ordered His Apostles to baptize others. St Paul was baptized as the first act after his conversion. The Ethiopian recognized the need for baptism and requested it. You can minimize baptism with your words... but you can no more diminish the importance of baptism in ignorance than you can put out the sun by typing the word "darkness." (with apologies to C.S Lewis...)

168 posted on 03/10/2011 8:04:59 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: JLLH

**thus allowing direct access to God through Christ**

Kinda like: “For through him” (Christ) “we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father”. Eph. 2:18

“By a new and living way,” (the Spirit is life) “which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh” Heb. 10:20

**what is of the flesh is of the flesh**

He didn’t say “what is of the water is flesh”. He was addresssing Nicodemas reply about ‘a man entering his mother’s womb again’.

In the KJV:
There is no comma in “Except a MAN be born of water and of the Spirit”.
There IS a semicolon between “that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit”.

In the passage where Jesus commanded, “He the believeth and is baptized shall be saved”, there is no comma.

In Luke 24:47, the Lord commanded his to his disciples “that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem”.

They followed the Lord’s orders, later in Jerusalem, by the preaching of Peter to the lost souls that were convicted in their hearts and asking “Men and brethern, what shall we do?”, to which Peter replied: “Repent, and be baptized EVERY ONE of you in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST for the REMISSION of SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. Acts 2:38

In various places in Acts you find the apostles going to quite an effort to spread the gospel, baptizing as many as would obey. 8:12-15; 10:48; 16:33; 19:5; and 22:16 (Paul’s testamony about his baptism).

**If water had any “salvific” powers**

“..eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”. 1 Peter 2:20,21.
The answer of a good conscience toward God? Yes, by being baptized in the powerful name of Jesus for the remission of sins, one has performed a faithful act that is not our own works, but is God ordained for our salvation. That is when his blood is applied to your soul.


169 posted on 03/10/2011 8:40:05 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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