Posted on 03/21/2011 10:34:29 AM PDT by count-your-change
Where was Christ for the three days following his death? It seems a simple enough question and it is. The answer is simple too. One might turn to Matthew 27:59, 60, where it says a rich man, Joseph, took Jesus' body and had it put in Joseph's prepared tomb and then a large stone was rolled in place to close up the cave like tomb.
So why would there be a question? Well, before Jesus died he had been asked to be remembered by a criminal hanging nearby. Said this man:
"Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." By the request he shows he does expect, he has faith, that despite the present situation, that Jesus would indeed, 'come into his kingdom'.
But it is Jesus' answer that some find hard to understand or explain:
"He replied, "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise". Notice that I left out the comma which does not appear in the Greek. It is the placement of that comma that brings the question of whether Jesus was saying either "today you will be with me" or "today I am saying to you", two very different things. Most translators place the comma before "today" in line their beliefs about Christ's condition during those three days, not according to any necessity occasioned by the Greek grammar. Is such placement, and the meaning it imparts, justified according to what the rest of the Scriptures say? No, not at all. How so?
Jesus said he, "the son of man" was to "be killed and on the third day raised up (resurrected)". (Luke 9:22) and Peter confirms that this is exactly what occurred at Acts 10:40,41 saying Christ 'rose from the dead'.
Earlier Peter had interpreted Psalm 16:10 as fitting the Christ, saying Christ had gone into Hades, or hell as some translations have it, as had David, to await God's resurrection of them. (Acts 2:29-36) David though, would have to wait until that much broader resurrection Paul spoke of at Acts 24:15, the "resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous".
But what of the criminal and the promise made to him? Did he die and go to heaven, hell, where?
He had not been born again. He had not repented or been baptized or become a disciple and shown his faith by his works as had those Paul spoke of in Hebrews chapter 11. He, like David, would have to wait for that resurrection from the memorial tombs (John 5:28, 29) of the "righteous and unrighteous" sometime in the future.
Only then, when Christ was "in his kingdom", could this criminal expect to be in "paradise". Mean while he was dead, unconscious, (Eccl. 9:4-6), what Christ compared to sleep.(John 11:11)
He was grabbing the Keys of Hell away from a certain fallen angel.
Anybody surprised that al-Husseini didn’t make them cover the statue?
He was in Sheol. Hell. The belly of the best.
“Truly I tell you today, you...” makes no sense. The thief thought Jesus was just a recording? Further, the saying “Truly I tell you,” is a translation of a specific idiom. “Today” is not part of the idiom.
In Greek, “today” is used as an adverb. I’m quite sure whoever stuck the comma in there knew which verb it agreed with.
If you don’t like the discussion of the Scriptures you can move on to your caucus and feel warm and safe. Bye.
Col. Kilgore is an admirer of his nose-riding technique.
Why not? He’d just been scourged and crucified and He had a few days clear on His calendar. Just because He’s Lord and Savior doesn’t mean He doesn’t rate some r&r.
Repeating something to emphasize its seriousness is not uncommon as at John 10:10, “Amen, amen, I am saying to you”.
I would say dying is pretty serious.
>”He, like David, would have to wait for that resurrection from the memorial tombs (John 5:28, 29) of the “righteous and unrighteous” sometime in the future. “
Let’s see what Jesus has to say about death and the soul:
Luke 16:19-31
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Where was Lazarus? Answer: In Hell.
Where were his five brothers while Lazarus’s soul was burning in Hell? Answer: They were alive and well, living on planet Earth.
Was Lazarus asleep, awaiting some future resurrection? Answer: No!
Therefore, you do greatly err in not listening to what Christ, Himself has to say on the subject.
Cheers
How did they determine that Christ had died? Were they sure he was dead?
I think that was karma, maybe karma corn with a large drink!
LOL!
How did WHO determine? To whom are referring?
The Catholic Creed states
” ... He descended into Hell. On the third day he arose again ... “
It doesn’t say what He did during those days in Hell.
As children in Catholic school, we were taught that he was meeting and freeing those souls there.
Ripping his side open with a spear and watching the body fluids, which had separated between white and red fluids, discharge from the abdomen is pretty good forensic evidence.
Whoever put him in that cave...or said he had died or took him off the cross. I don’t know exactly who. How did they determine he was lifeless and actually dead? Just wondering. You know how they used to bury people alive all the time in the old days.... not knowing their heart was still beating.
Do you not understand this parable? Do you not understand what Peter said about Christ being in Hades?
“Just because He’s Lord and Savior doesn’t mean He doesn’t rate some r&r.”
Sure, he turned water into wine.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.