What you and your mormon gang do goes well beyond proselytizing, and all the way into....
Posted on 03/28/2011 7:12:57 PM PDT by Paragon Defender
Author: Michael R. Ash
Source: For Mormon Times
28 March 2011 6:00am
In last week’s issue, I argued that secular evidences alone can never offer the power to convert anyone to the restored gospel. Undeniable secular evidences for Joseph Smith’s prophetic status would frustrate the necessity of agency and would still likely not change the hearts of those who adamantly reject the Prophet.
Critics typically claim that Latter-day Saints rely on “feelings” in lieu of “evidence” — thereby implying that there is no rational thought that factors into their spiritual testimonies. This is unmitigated nonsense and contains at least three errors — the first two of which will be discussed in this installment.
The first error is that all Latter-day Saint testimonies are void of reason and rationale. This is not, however, the way many member testimonies are formed and maintained. While a testimony must be grounded on a spiritual confirmation, the mind is an integral part of gaining our testimony. We are expected to use our minds to study the scriptures and learn what God wants.
When Oliver Cowdery made his failed attempt at translating the plates the Lord told him: “Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.” (Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-8).
Moroni (Moroni 10:3) and other prophets (2 Nephi 32:1) have counseled us to ponder things in our hearts — which sounds like an emotional rather than intellectual approach. Most people in ancient times, however, generally didn’t understand that the brain was the source for thoughts and reasoning. They typically believed that the heart was home for both the soul as well as the origination of thoughts.
While the Egyptians experimented with brain surgery, for instance, they nevertheless believed that the heart — not the brain — was the source for thoughts. To “ponder things in our hearts” means to include our brains in our spiritual quest.
As Latter-day Saints who believe that the glory of God is intelligence (D&C 93:36), we are told to seek wisdom from the best books (D&C 88:118) and learn more than just what we hear in Sunday School. We are encouraged to learn about astronomy, geology, history, current and foreign events, and much more (D&C 88: 79).
“Each of us,” said President Boyd K. Packer, “must accommodate the mixture of reason and revelation in our lives. The gospel not only permits but requires it.”
In 2007, the church published a statement about LDS doctrine which read in part:
"The church exhorts all people to approach the gospel not only intellectually but with the intellect and the spirit, a process in which reason and faith work together.”
Latter-day Saints (like most other people who believe in a spiritual realm) believe that some evidence — such as a spiritual witness — can only come through faith, but they also maintain that faith and reason are not typically in conflict and that reason can support faith (more on this later).
The second error made by critics is the implication that a testimony is nothing more than “feelings” or emotions. They sometimes profane the “burning in the bosom” into something like what you could get from eating too much pizza. As Elder Dallin H. Oaks said:
“What does a ‘burning in the bosom’ mean? Does it need to be a feeling of caloric heat, like the burning produced by combustion? If that is the meaning, I have never had a burning in the bosom. Surely, the word 'burning' in this scripture signifies a feeling of comfort and serenity. That is the witness many receive. That is the way revelation works.”
As noted above, a testimony should be grounded both in the heart and mind. Dr. Wendy Ulrich, speaking at the 2005 FAIR conference, explained:
“How do the goosebumps and tearfulness I experience when someone speaks in a testimony meeting differ from the goosebumps and tearfulness I experience when the 4:00 parade begins at Disneyland? ...
“Fortunately, we are not left with emotion alone to discern God's hand in our lives. Reason, experience, counsel from others and other forms of revelation may all assist us. In fact, I notice that emotion plays into only some of my spiritual experiences, and often only in a secondary way. More often the spiritual promptings and confirmations I receive come very quietly as something simply occurs to me with a kind of rightness that has no real emotion attached to it at all. … Others have come as a pure love beyond my previous capacity to imagine. … I expect that people from many religious backgrounds may have such experiences, and I am comfortable imagining God in many of them, but they are not easily explained away as a self-produced warm feeling.”
What’s ironic about the “feelings/emotions” charge made by critics is that they often base their rejection of the restored gospel on emotions or non-intellectual reasons (as we will see in next week’s installment).
haha that Godzilla facepalm photoshop is pretty funny!
unfortunately having creative photoshoppong abilities doesn’t change reality.
Good one though!
Repent lest you be judge.
Good grief man, if you are going to miss quote Bible because you have no historical context at least try and throw in a reference.
Your (miss) quote is a perfect example of lds not understanding the Bible.
Paragon Defender, I respectfully disagree that the Mormon-related ‘issues’ that are so frequently discussed on Free Republic are addressed appropriately at the websites you always post.
Well that’s ok, we don’t have to agree on everything.
I also question your use of the term ‘propaganda’ when describing any discussion that includes unflattering quotes from LDS leaders, LDS publications, or historical events.
I disagree that I do that. I call it propaganda when such things are misrepresented in one way or another to reflect a predetermined conclusion.
Blazing Bosoms Placemarker! Oh, but their spicy!
Ah, more appropriate to for you. Still waiting for you to let me know when the nephite exhibit opens at the smithsonian.
ROFL! So now you are comparing me to the Phelps gang! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ultimate FAIL!
I think he knows some parts better than others, but he is not good at debate. I think he is afraid of losing so he just posts his links and then claims he is giving us answers. Or perhaps Mormonism forbids much in the way of theological debate because it makes Mormonism look bad.
Nothing is worn out unless you have adressed it first FRiend. And posting the links doesn't count. We want an answer from YOU, YOURSELF, not some general list of links.
This thing is kinda like Obama and the birth certificate. If he would just producce a real one instead of dodging, people would be satisfied. If you would just actually give folks here real answers YOURSELF instead of dodging, people would be a lot less irked with you.
Yeah, I have no idea why he post in the first place except to get the attention he craves
The muslims also claim to believe in a version of Jesus, who they call Isa, who they claim never actually died on the cross and who was a muslim, not a Jew.
And then there are other people today who make Jesus out to be just a great mystic or teacher, some claiming that he married. There is no shortage of false images of Jesus. Everyone makes a different Jesus in their own image it seems. I suppose Jesus himself doesn't look on all this favorably...
There are so many blind folks. If these people could only just see.
Nothing is worn out unless you have adressed it first FRiend.
Sure it is
And posting the links doesn’t count.
Sure it does
We want an answer from YOU, YOURSELF, not some general list of links.
Nah sorry I don’t play pointless games. The answers are at the links provided for any lurkers and you as well.
This thing is kinda like Obama and the birth certificate. If he would just producce a real one instead of dodging, people would be satisfied. If you would just actually give folks here real answers YOURSELF instead of dodging, people would be a lot less irked with you.
I agree about the birth cert. If he would produce it the issue would go away. And a link to it would suffice just fine.
I don’t “dodge” I provide the sources for the answers if one is interested. As far as anti-Mormons getting irked with me goes, I don’t really care all that much. I feel bad for them but it is their choice.
I hope he doesn't feel he can get away with posting this type of stuff without people questioning it.
Absolutely!
I know. And he never answers questions because he can’t.
It DOES NOT. You post the same general worn out list of links for every single question that is ever asked. You sure would fail at debate class.
I Peter 3:15 tells us to always give an answer to everyone who askes a question about our faith. Do you believe this? If so, I ask you to pretend with me for a moment that we are having a converstation face to face one hundred years ago. You links would not exist. How would you answer my previous posts? Could you answer?
Nah sorry I don’t play pointless games.
Yes, it is kinda pointless for those who want an answer on Mormonism's questionable doctrines out of the mouth of a mormon. You are the only one playing games.
What you and your mormon gang do goes well beyond proselytizing, and all the way into....
< rant on >
Those verses in the Quran about Islam not being peaceful must be propaganda too (example: the verse of the sword, "slay the infidels wherever you find them"). Because we know that any discussion that includes unflattering quotes from Muslim leaders, Muslim publications, or historical events must be misrepresented in one way or another to reflect a predetermined conclusion. If you actually believe that Islam is not innately peaceful, and that Mohammad killed lots of people and had sexual relations with a 9 year old, you must be a PROPAGANDIST. You just like to take things out of context you meanie.
< /rant off >
:-)
So is it propaganda to expose Islam and other religions too, or is it just propaganda when your beliefs are questioned? Hmmmmm PD?
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