Posted on 04/03/2011 6:33:28 AM PDT by marshmallow
Though there are and always have been sinners in high places and low within the Church, the gates of hell will not prevail against it. We have that on the very Highest Authority. If we can’t trust Him, who can we trust?
“He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon”
Are you running out of links to organize? lol.
Well put!
But I stand by my comment. Their are certain institutions (the Church and the military, for example) which MUST be held to a higher standard if people are to have confidence in them.
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Church leaders must behave perfectly. That's obviously impossible. And I believe that that's what Alinsky was referring to: attack the Church becaus its people are imperfect.
Those of us that believe in the goodness of the Church must reject this. Accept that there will be imperfections. And realize that those imperfections do not in any way lessen the value of the Church.
But at the same time the Church must work ceaselessly and publicly to minimize these imperfections. The Church must retain the confidence of the people. That is my point.
I have never collected any links on the abuse scandal. I know of too many priests who were falsely accused just for the money.
And the accusers were proved wrong in these cases — in court — no less.
But, please, think about what it does to a priest’s life. It is as though he had gone through a divorce or death of a spouse. It’s a big loss in their lives. I believe that many will be proved innocent and the accusers who collected money falsely will be justly judged on the final days.
Those priests who actually did abuse children will likewise be judged justly by God.
I just know of too many priests who have been false accused and been acquitted in court.
My reply was sincere and well considered, and was met with a rude and frankly personal attack, behavior that is not allowed on the Religion Forum. This is very unhelpful, E. Pluribus Unum.
You can certainly continue on lashing out at people who are concerned about the apparent problem rather than addressing the problem itself, but do not be surprised at the damage you’ll continue to unintentionally cause to the institution that you seem to cherish.
Whatever you say, Saul.
Are you interested in a robust discussion, or in trading insults?
If it’s trading insults, I don’t find that very productive, so I’ll pass.
Hide behind your holier-than-thou facade.
OK, I’ll assume that you are sincere and try one more time.
Do you believe that the Church should be held to a higher standard, than, say, a bowling league?
Notice that I am not saying that the Church should be held to a standard of perfection, just to a standard higher than that of a casual organization.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Yeah Anne, if only the Church was more tolerant of homosexualists like you wanted the homosexualist priest scandal wouldn’t have involved so many scumbag homosexualist predators.
And your vampires are sorry wimps.
Freegards
I keep reading this, and wondering what planet some of you folks live on.
NO Catholics that I know "defend the sex-abusers".
I'm going to repeat that.
NO Catholics that I know "defend the sex-abusers".
We do (a) refuse to let the issue be used to slander priests in general, between 95% and 98+% of whom are completely innocent by anyone's reckoning; (b) refuse to let the issue be used to slander Catholicism per se; and (b) refuse to let the issue be used as an excuse to persecute the innocent, whether by civil suit or by "trial" in the media.
I daresay that EVERY Catholic FReeper, and EVERY faithful Catholic I know, is disgusted by the whole string of episodes, and further upset because almost all of it could have been avoided by keeping homosexuals out of the priesthood (that is, the onus is on the bishops and the seminaries, both of whom dropped the ball).
In a larger sense, this whole thing is the fallout from the toxic evil perpetrated on the Catholic Church in the name of the "spirit of Vatican II" (not the letter of Vatican II, which knows nothing of it) by liberals in positions of power. (cf Rembert Weakland for a classic example)
That is why conservative, faithful, orthodox Catholics don't feel like they should be ripping their garments and pouring ashes on their own heads over it. The abusers were, and were enabled by, largely (not entirely, but largely) the same people we have been fighting against for the past 40 years. Why should we blame ourselves for the corruption our enemies -- wolves in shepherd's clothing, in many cases -- brought upon the house of God? The uncovering of the scandals -- not the scandals themselves, but the uncovering of them -- are God's way of purifying His Church. And in that, those of us who try to be faithful to Christ should rejoice.
It’s you who made the accusation. So back it up.
Now, as an Orthodox Christian, I regard the Orthodox Church as being the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, poetically called the Ark of Salvation.
In the face of attitudes like Ms. Rice’s, though, perhaps our separated Latin brethren might want to quote a remark an Orthodox priest made in response to a minor scandal involving a venial Orthodox bishop, “The Church is the Ark of Salvation: if it weren’t for the flood outside, no one would put up with the smell inside.”
It's all about the Cha-Ching.
How poetic that a homosexual supporter and her gay son find comfort in the sin-quenching aspect of the body that caused the value-sheltering Catholics to be gracious to homosexuals only then attempt to torch them with the same.
Imagine Christians welcoming sinners into their midst, dispensing grace and forgiveness, allowing assumedly-past sinners to become exalted to positions of authority, then, as they continue their evil, see the church itself blamed, despoiled and asked for recompense for not rooting their very rotten selves!
The Catholic body knows the Christ-like work they do, even to stay the sinners' deserved punishments so long as possible, that they might yet be saved, as they simultaneeously seek not to be broken by the sinners' (previoulsy undisclosed) impenitant evil! How awful, they say, it is that the church would seek to protect itself and its values against disreputation and destruction!
In their evil lust ultimately to devour their host, gays desire to misdirect (as the media have so ably shown how-to) that the institution's self-protection mechanisms are somehow the "real corruption going on here", when in fact their infection of the godly institution is the faulty trigger and evil that lurks behind all this kicked-up bruhaha.
Such will it ever be, and that is why homosexuality was quite rightly spoken against in the Bible. The arrogance of gays to insist upon their consummately vicious values above the values of the institution they've infected and thrived upon is merely their desired, repeatable tipping point, toward the institution's destruction.
Any who would save their respective institutions need to root these out!
HF
Well, I’m astonished. I just haven’t run across Catholics who defend the sexual predation in the clergy or anywhere else. I have run across many who denounce it strongly.
I guess I lead a sheltered life.
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