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Christian Palestinianism
BibleProphecyBlog.com ^ | April 28, 2011 | Jim Fletcher

Posted on 04/28/2011 2:49:15 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta

For some time, I have been raising the alarm that evangelical Christianity has been infiltrated by theological leftists. Among other things, this impacts our nation’s view of Israel.

Recently, I was made aware of a movement of young evangelicals who are embracing what the British lecturer Paul Wilkinson calls “Christian Palestinianism.” Loosely, this means a Christian who supports the Palestinian Arabs, and dismisses Jewish claims to the land. Obviously, these “Millennial Generation” Christians (18-34) do not embrace Bible prophecy. Their worldview is different.

A battle for Israel is being fought in the United States right now. Traditionally, Americans have supported the Jewish state, and the U.S. has always been one of the few friendly havens for Jews. I believe that is changing.

Chris LaTondresse, CEO of Recovering Evangelical (recoveringevangelical.com) is such a leader. By embracing new media and technologies, they are reaching vast numbers of young people. To be perfectly frank, while many of us in the Bible prophecy community cling to old models in presenting our worldview, young people aren’t paying attention at all. They are running to the “recovering evangelicals.” Listen to what LaTondresse posted on his website:

“Our generation’s tutors are child-soldiers in Uganda, girls rescued from sex-slavery in Thailand and homeless youth living in the crumbling remains of America’s inner-cities. Our primary classrooms are Brazilian favelas, rural villages in Kenya and bombed-out neighborhoods in Gaza. These people aren’t our causes. They’re our friends.

“For these reasons and more, we’re turned-off when faith becomes a bludgeon used to condemn those outside of our tribe. We think the world needs fewer culture warriors and more peacemakers, reconcilers and bridge builders.”

Of course, he is interested in building bridges with those of like-mind. I seriously doubt the young evangelicals who consider themselves centrists or left-leaning are interested in building bridges with what I’d call Bible-believing Christians. And, it is perfectly acceptable for them and Brian McLaren and Tony Campolo — mentors of a sort — to use their faith as a bludgeon against those with whom they disagree.

Amazingly, McLaren is considered to be a voice of reason and a compassionate voice, at the same time he lambasts Bible-believing Christians.

LaTondresse has been impacted by the teachings of Elias Chacour, a Palestinian Catholic from the Galilee who promotes the “Palestinian narrative” which essentially blames the Arab refugee problem on Israel. As LaTondresse claims, Chacour “loves Jesus,” but one isn’t clear if these men acknowledge that Jesus is a Jew. Certainly, the godfather of modern terrorism, the self-proclaimed leader of the Palestinian people, Yasser Arafat, absurdly identified Jesus as a Palestinian. This lie has also been peddled by such “evangelical icons” as Phillip Yancey.

The leadership team of Recovering Evangelical, seven-strong, is comprised of college graduates — including one from Princeton Theological Seminary. One hundred years ago, Princeton was in the midst of a transformation from being a bastion of conservative scholarship, to a liberal school. That is why such wonderful teachers as Robert Dick Wilson departed Princeton. The spirit of the age was against them, and it is against us.

Interestingly, one of Recovering Evangelical’s senior contributors, Brian Kammerzelt, currently serves on the faculty at Moody! He also taught at Wheaton, which many Christians do not realize is more liberal than conservative. He also attended Willow Creek, the seeker-friendly church in north Chicago started by Bill Hybels.

Hybels’ wife, Lynne, has become more and more vocal about supporting the Palestinians. On her blog (lynnehybels.blogspot.com), she recently posted some comments about a sermon her husband had delivered the month following the 9/11 attacks.

Predictably, Bill Hybels decried what he described as unfair characterizations of Muslims, by Americans. This after 19 Muslim terrorists had murdered more than 3,000 Americans. ABC’s Peter Jennings went down the same path, almost immediately holding a town-hall meeting to present Muslims as misunderstood peaceniks.

Lynne Hybels wrote this about her husband’s message:

“He talked about ‘hot reactors,’ people who ‘opinionate before they reflect, before they bow down and pray; who ventilate before they ask God for sober-mindedness and self-control; who indict whole races of people before they know the facts. Let’s call this what it is: not good. Not good behavior. Not good Christianity. This is Christianity gone awry.’”

Lynne Hybels also spoke at the “Christ at the Checkpoint” International Conference, organized by Palestinians and Christians who oppose Christian Zionists. On the website (christatthecheckpoint.com), we also learn that Tony Campolo characterizes Christian Zionism as “theology that legitimates oppression.”

Christian Zionism is a theology that legitimates oppression? That is a lie.

These kinds of potshots and smear tactics against Christians who support Israel are growing in number. Christian Zionists, in my view, must determine to do two things:

1. Read, study, and educate. Learn the arguments. Study the issues related to Israel and the Jewish people. Then use your brain to articulate these things to your circle of contacts. A word of caution: the nastiness of the proponents of “Christian Palestinianism” will be a continual problem. Yet we must engage these attacks, which are ultimately attacks on the Jewish people.
2. Embrace the new technologies. Use tools like social networking, PowerPoint presentations if you speak to groups, etc. If you think you’re too old for Facebook, think again. “Tweet” on Twitter. Realize that cell phones are the new delivery systems for young people. While we are fumbling with overheard projectors and slides, our opponents are laughing, while providing the content they want young people to digest via new technology.

Leftists will always present themselves as reasonable, compassionate, “careful thinkers.” They focus heavily on social justice issues, and love causes that would make the Pacifists’ Hall of Fame.

Yet there is a malevolence associated with their loathing of Christian Zionists. Check it out for yourselves.

We have work to do.


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: palestinianism; replacementtheology; supersessionism; theology
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1 posted on 04/28/2011 2:49:15 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Thank you for posting. Very interesting and I will check it out even closer when I have time.


2 posted on 04/28/2011 2:56:39 PM PDT by fatez ("If you're going through Hell, keep going." Winston Churchill)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: GiovannaNicoletta

Sounds just like Jimmah Cahtuh.


4 posted on 04/28/2011 3:00:37 PM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Whenever I encounter these morons online, I remind everyone that most of them are actually working for the mossad.


5 posted on 04/28/2011 3:10:31 PM PDT by Yehuda (Land of the free, THANKS TO THE BRAVE!)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

The “Old Right” anti-Semites such as Gerald L.K. Smith, Wesley Swift, Gerald Winrod, and Russell Maguire have opposed chr*stian Zionism from the beginning (describing them as “Zionuts” among other humorous labels). Now the Left is joining their “polar opposites” on this issue. But then, the Nazis and Communists have always been joined on this issue, haven’t they?


6 posted on 04/28/2011 3:11:03 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hachodesh hazeh lakhem ro'sh chodashim; ri'shon hu' lakhem lechodshey hashanah.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

These people have a holy book that is neither the New Testament or the Old Testament. If I had to hazard a guess, I’d say the book they consider Holy Writ is Das Kapital.


7 posted on 04/28/2011 3:14:19 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

You know darn well that “Christian” Zionism has nothing to do with traditional Christianity. If Americans support Israel for geopolitical reasons that is one thing, but there is no Christian moral imperitive to intervene in religious disputes between Muslims and Jews. Both these religions reject Jesus as the Messiah and share the same dietary rules.


8 posted on 04/28/2011 3:55:08 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Its pretty bad. My pastor tried to tell me that the Israelis spin the news... Apparently he’s never heard of “Paliwood” and other nifty Pali propaganda efforts.


9 posted on 04/28/2011 5:08:46 PM PDT by Little Ray (The Gods of the Copybook Heading, with terror and slaughter return!)
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To: mas cerveza por favor
You know darn well that “Christian” Zionism has nothing to do with traditional Christianity. If Americans support Israel for geopolitical reasons that is one thing, but there is no Christian moral imperitive to intervene in religious disputes between Muslims and Jews. Both these religions reject Jesus as the Messiah and share the same dietary rules.

Yes, I know that. And I wish the chr*stian Zionists themselves would also and become Noachides, but they cling to the "new testament" with the same fervor that they cling to the Hebrew Bible.

However, mistaken though they may be, their dedication to the Hebrew Bible shows that they have more of an intention to worship the true Jewish G-d than classical chr*stians do, and I pray HaShem recognizes their zekhut for doing so.

I'm quite sure, by the way, that your attitude (the traditional one in your church) is one reason your church is so dismissive of the stories of the Hebrew Bible.

10 posted on 04/28/2011 6:04:48 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hachodesh hazeh lakhem ro'sh chodashim; ri'shon hu' lakhem lechodshey hashanah.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
I'm quite sure, by the way, that your attitude (the traditional one in your church) is one reason your church is so dismissive of the stories of the Hebrew Bible.

??? I was unaware of that.

11 posted on 04/28/2011 7:01:05 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor
I'm quite sure, by the way, that your attitude (the traditional one in your church) is one reason your church is so dismissive of the stories of the Hebrew Bible.

??? I was unaware of that.

Bevadday. First the Catholic Church rejected the rituals of the Hebrew Bible and (chas vechalilah!) "replaced" them with post-Biblical rituals of its own. It was only a matter of time before the stories of the Hebrew Bible would suffer the same fate--being dismissed as "mythology" while being replaced with new post-Biblical stories.

12 posted on 04/28/2011 7:41:50 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hachodesh hazeh lakhem ro'sh chodashim; ri'shon hu' lakhem lechodshey hashanah.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
I thought this article was about Christians in the Holy Land, who are fast dwindling. Christians were the majority in Bethlehelm 20 years ago, now the town is 60%+ Moslem and the Christians are fast dwindling.

This is not as drastic as Iraq (2 million in 2003 and 400,000 now and falling) -- Christians are threatened all over the Moslem world. See the killing of Shahbaz Bhatti

13 posted on 04/29/2011 2:10:27 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

The Christian church IS Israel.


14 posted on 04/29/2011 4:58:23 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity; GiovannaNicoletta; Quix
The Christian church IS Israel.

Can you clarify. If you mean that the Church has replaced Israel utterly and Israel no longer blessed under the Old Covenant, then that is wrong, utterly wrong

To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

15 posted on 04/29/2011 5:09:22 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos
"Can you clarify."

Israel is to the Christian church as the caterpillar is to the butterfly.

16 posted on 04/29/2011 5:14:47 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity
Israel is to the Christian church as the caterpillar is to the butterfly.

Yes, but Israel, i.e. the Judaic religion still exists. Is it still under the Old Covenant or not?

17 posted on 04/29/2011 5:17:08 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos
"Is it still under the Old Covenant or not?"

The old covenant ended 2000 years ago. "There is no Jew, there is no Greek".

18 posted on 04/29/2011 5:21:34 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity; Quix; GiovannaNicoletta; Zionist Conspirator; jjotto
The old covenant ended 2000 years ago. "There is no Jew, there is no Greek".

I'm sorry, you cannot take this as justification that the covenant God made with the Jews has been revoked. God does not go back on his word, He has extended the grace given to the Jews before Christ to the gentiles.

We are like new branches grafted on the old -- we are not replacing the Jews but are now partaking with them and yet by accepting Christ's blessings we are partaking in the new covenant and in His grace.

The Jews who accept Christ's blessings are doubly blessed, but those who do not accept Christ are not "replaced"

19 posted on 04/29/2011 5:49:55 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: circlecity
Rom 11:29 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

God does not go back on His Word. He made a covenant with the Israelites and He stays true to His Word.

Romans 9:4-6 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised![a] Amen.

Romans 11:1 1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people

20 posted on 04/29/2011 6:05:49 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.


21 posted on 04/29/2011 7:20:33 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Cronos
"God does not go back on His Word. He made a covenant with the Israelites"

And he fullfilled it 2000 years ago.

22 posted on 04/29/2011 7:32:40 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity; Zionist Conspirator; Quix; Hoodat

So, the Jews of today are not the chosen people any more?


23 posted on 04/29/2011 7:35:19 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

No. That all ended when they killed their Messaiah. “We have no king but Caesar” was an irrevocible decision. Now there are only Christians (”There is no Jew, there is no Greek”) and the damned. And which side of that line one chooses determines their eternity. Choose wisely.


24 posted on 04/29/2011 7:43:02 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity
Now there are only Christians (”There is no Jew, there is no Greek”)

Where in hell did you come up with that? And why do you believe that God has somehow reneged on an eternal covenant he made with Abraham and Israel?

Behold, I will gather them out of all countries where I have driven them in My anger, in My fury, and in great wrath; I will bring them back to this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely. They shall be My people, and I will be their God; then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me. Yes, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart and with all My soul.’

Jeremiah 32:37-41

25 posted on 04/29/2011 8:11:53 AM PDT by Hoodat (Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. - (Rom 8:37))
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To: Hoodat

God fullfilled all his promises to the Jews.


26 posted on 04/29/2011 8:13:26 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity

What part of “everlasting covenant” do you not understand?


27 posted on 04/29/2011 8:17:38 AM PDT by Hoodat (Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. - (Rom 8:37))
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To: Cronos; mas cerveza por favor
mas cerveza por favor wrote:
You know darn well that “Christian” Zionism has nothing to do with traditional Christianity. If Americans support Israel for geopolitical reasons that is one thing, but there is no Christian moral imperitive to intervene in religious disputes between Muslims and Jews. Both these religions reject Jesus as the Messiah and share the same dietary rules.

Cronos: While you're responding to OPC's and other of their ilk, what about this co-religionist of yours?

28 posted on 04/29/2011 8:20:38 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hachodesh hazeh lakhem ro'sh chodashim; ri'shon hu' lakhem lechodshey hashanah.)
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To: circlecity

And for the record, it was the Romans who put Jesus on the cross, not the Jews.


29 posted on 04/29/2011 8:22:08 AM PDT by Hoodat (Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. - (Rom 8:37))
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To: Hoodat

Christ fullfilled that covenant. Christ was always the fullfillment of the unconditional promise.


30 posted on 04/29/2011 8:23:36 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: Hoodat
"And for the record, it was the Romans who put Jesus on the cross, not the Jews."

And for the record, Jesus said those who delivered him to the Romans had the "greater sin".

31 posted on 04/29/2011 8:32:32 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: mas cerveza por favor
You know darn well that “Christian” Zionism has nothing to do with traditional Christianity. If Americans support Israel for geopolitical reasons that is one thing, but there is no Christian moral imperitive to intervene in religious disputes between Muslims and Jews. Both these religions reject Jesus as the Messiah and share the same dietary rules.

"Would that they were Noachides!"

Dispensationalists, some of them, sure keep some odd company, for a supposedly Christian school of thought.

32 posted on 04/29/2011 8:43:11 AM PDT by Lee N. Field (Never argue eschatology with a crazy person.)
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To: mas cerveza por favor
but there is no Christian moral imperitive [sic] to intervene in religious disputes between Muslims and Jews. Both these religions reject Jesus as the Messiah and share the same dietary rules.

However only one of them is still the covenant people of God. As far as "share the same dietary rules," ha ha ha, as though that has any relevance to anything except that the Muslims got them, along with most of the rest of their religious "history," from the Arabian Jews (and Arabian Christians).
33 posted on 04/29/2011 8:50:26 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Lee N. Field
Dispensationalists, some of them, sure keep some odd company, for a supposedly Christian school of thought.

Maybe it isn't chr*stian. Maybe Fundamentalist Protestantism isn't chr*stian. Maybe that's the wrong word.

Maybe they're "Biblical."

After all, why does any Protestant believe in chr*stianity in the first place? Only because "the bible says so," correct? Isn't J*sus ultimately just another biblical character--the most important one, perhaps, but owing his claims and his authority to nothing other than Biblical assertions?

The "old testament" is a lot longer than the "new." It covers a lot more history. The "new testament" is but a snapshot of the church's birth; the "old" describes the world from the day it was created until the end of the First Exile. Catholics and Orthodox have two thousand years of history to look to for heroes and for systems of how the world should work. Fundamentalist Protestants have the "old testament."

Now . . . just how much critical thought does it take to simply consider the possibility that the "new testament" may not be what it claims to be . . . maybe it doesn't belong, maybe it was added by men? Fundamentalist Protestants have no trouble whatsoever dismissing the Apocrypha or the "book of mormon" . . . isn't it just an application of that same logic to judge the "new testament" by the "old" that preceded it . . . and find it wanting?

Dispensationalist-type Protestants are drawn to the Jews and Judaism by their Biblical sentimentalism. One wonders where the sentiment of supersessionist Protestants (who reject the Hebrew Bible and the two thousand years of liturgical chr*stendom) draws them? They don't seem to have much of anything.

Chr*stianity is not self-evidently true. It is true only if it is authorized by the Biblical G-d. All it would take is a little critical thought, the ability to read the Hebrew Bible without the assumptions imported from the "new testament" (a logical fallacy known as "affirmation of the consequent").

But don't worry. I once had hopes that this would happen, but I have given up. The Dispensationalists, and all the other chr*stian Zionists, have a "new testament" in their bibles and they would no more question it than they would the first eleven chapters of Genesis. They don't know how it got there; they don't care how it got there. All they know is it's there, and that settles it. So unfortunately, my friend, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Would that it weren't so!

34 posted on 04/29/2011 9:09:52 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hachodesh hazeh lakhem ro'sh chodashim; ri'shon hu' lakhem lechodshey hashanah.)
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To: aruanan
still the covenant people of God.

Christians are the new covenant people of God.

"But you are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light" (1 Peter 2:9)

For the sake of the old covenant, the official policy of traditional Christianity toward Judaism is toleration, beyond that extended toward Muslims or pagans. However, there is no traditional Christian endorsement of post-messianic Jewish religion, since Christ is the sole means of salvation. Christians are under no obligation to take sides in external religious disputes among Muslims, Jews, or pagans.

35 posted on 04/29/2011 10:15:07 AM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: Cronos; Zionist Conspirator; mas cerveza por favor; mlizzy
On a related note, I saw this Voris video not too long ago. I'm not very well versed in all of this Israel, Judaism, Christianity stuff, so I would like to know your opinions on this video:

Michael Voris video

Mlizzy, I'm also pinging you, because you seem to know a lot about Voris.

36 posted on 04/29/2011 1:01:03 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: mas cerveza por favor

“there is no Christian moral imperitive to intervene in religious disputes between Muslims and Jews.”

Christians should not intervene in “disputes” between terrorists and their innocent victims?


37 posted on 04/29/2011 4:50:16 PM PDT by TheDingoAteMyBaby
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To: WPaCon

The video sounds like a solid presentation of Catholic doctrine.


38 posted on 04/29/2011 11:37:49 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

Intervening in this case would be protecting a victim against an aggressor, not favoring one non-Christian religion over another.


39 posted on 04/29/2011 11:47:29 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: WPaCon

Thanks for the ping, but Voris himself does a great job of answering questions in his commentary section of his YouTube. Take a look-see. :)


40 posted on 04/30/2011 9:45:20 AM PDT by mlizzy (Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee ...)
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To: mlizzy

Ok thanks :)


41 posted on 04/30/2011 10:09:24 AM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Dr. Eckleburg; RnMomof7
ZC: Dispensationalist-type Protestants are drawn to the Jews and Judaism by their Biblical sentimentalism. One wonders where the sentiment of supersessionist Protestants (who reject the Hebrew Bible and the two thousand years of liturgical chr*stendom) draws them? They don't seem to have much of anything. Interesting
42 posted on 05/03/2011 1:43:51 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Zionist Conspirator; mas cerveza por favor
hmmm... zc, I didn't actually even understand what mcpf wanted to say. However, mas cerveza, while Both these religions reject Jesus as the Messiah, the and share the same dietary rules. is because Mohammed copied the rules from Judaism.

There is a moral imperative for Christians to support the Jews right to exist because they are the ones who originally heard God's word and Islam is a distortion of God's word.

We support the Jews against the Moslems because we form a different Judeo-Christian tradition and religious sense in comparison to Moslem.

Of course, some of Judaic morals differ from Christian morals, but both have much more in common than Islam has with either

With regard to "intervene in religious disputes" --> ZC, I agree with MCPF -- if Moslems want to debate with Jews on religious issues, without violence, then it is a matter between Jews and Moslems (say if they want to argue over I don't know, whether Isaih or Ishmael was to be sacrificed on the temple mount. But if they want to exterminate Israel, then it is our moral imperative to stop the Moslems from doing so.

43 posted on 05/03/2011 1:49:59 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Lucius Cornelius Sulla
For that matter, these is a substantial difference between a person's individual opinion as your innate tendency to jump on the anti-Catholic bandwagon or an anti-Semite's tendency to jump on the anti-Jewish bandwagon and for the entire doctrine of a group today (like the OPC) to be anti-semitic

The former where an individual has a strong prejudice is an individual's issue, until it blows up to the latter form

As Lucius Sulla pointed out in this post

I consider myself to be a traditional Roman Catholic, though not of the fringe SPXX type ‘Catholics’. My grandfather was a secular Jew, and I grew up with Jewish friends and attended college at the heavily Jewish NYU. I say this not as some sort of justification, but only to point out that I would be highly conscious of anti-Semitism in any Catholic group.

In 1964 I was a board member of NY Youth for Goldwater, there were about 29 members, two of them Jewish, one of them a Black Protestant Democrat, and the rest of them were Roman Catholics (in NY Conservatives were heavily Catholic, partially due to Bill Buckley and National Review). So I was in a position to hear anti-semitic positions among Conservative Catholics.

As someone well situated to hear anti-Semitism, if any, among Conservative Catholics, and motivated to recognize them if they occurred, I have never heard even a hint of the attitudes and positions you mentioned. More than that, I consider your statements on this matter, blaming all Conservatives for the wacked out positions of a few, to be a personal slur, evidence of ignorance or religious bigotry, and I demand an apology.

This is glaringly obvious -- as I have pointed out before that a knee-jerk hatred such that any thread even barely touching Catholicism or Judaism brings out a person to say an adverse comment about either is a sign of a deep problem that must be rectified. This irrational hatred led to such distortions as the "Protocols" and we see the same here repeated on FR (not by you thankfully)

44 posted on 05/03/2011 1:55:43 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: mas cerveza por favor; Zionist Conspirator; Lucius Cornelius Sulla
my apologies, mcpf.

ZC, you may need to also owe mas an apology (besides Lucius as in the post I gave above) -- he has stated that Intervening in this case would be protecting a victim against an aggressor, not favoring one non-Christian religion over another.

45 posted on 05/03/2011 1:58:31 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos; Zionist Conspirator; RnMomof7; Gamecock; Alex Murphy
We support the Jews against the Moslems because we form a different Judeo-Christian tradition and religious sense in comparison to Moslem.

Rome is nothing if not flexible..

From the RCC catechism...

841 - The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

Get that? Muslims are in the "first place."

Do most Jews and Christians believe that Muslims acknowledge the same "Creator" as they do? The same "faith of Abraham?"

Rome apparently thinks so.

Liars.

46 posted on 05/03/2011 2:03:01 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Cronos

Thanks for the ping! I do have to say that I heard some anti-semitic terms from my Irish grandmother, despite her being married to a Jewish guy. She was a Democrat activist in the 1920’s and 30’s in NYC. I would not say she was an anti-semite, but used the extremely non PC language of the times. (She used to call me her ‘little monkey’, totally peyond the pale these days.)


47 posted on 05/03/2011 2:15:57 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Liberty and Union, Now and Forever, One and Inseparable -- Daniel Webster)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

‘Get that? Muslims are in the “first place.”’

Pretty dishonest in that the context of that statement made it clear that Catholics are in the first place, then the Orthodox and Proterstants, then the Jews, and after that, among those who do not accept the Old Testament, the Muslims were in the ‘fist place’.

You do mention that this is item 841, the rest of the material was in items 1 - 840.


48 posted on 05/03/2011 2:21:04 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Liberty and Union, Now and Forever, One and Inseparable -- Daniel Webster)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Zionist Conspirator; RnMomof7; Gamecock; Alex Murphy
from the catechism
When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God."

The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant.

To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."
Contrast this with the OPC which has from it's creation by Machen in the 30s, been anti-semitic and it's pretense of being Christian wears thin. The OPC as part of its core doctrines states that the OPC believes that God's chosen people today are not the Jews

It's very own doctrines, as I linked to above dictates terms against Jews and Jewish festivals

On the contrary I see the OPC and the PCA folks being stridently, vehemently anti-Israel, such that they have spittle coming out of their mouths most of the time when they mention Israel

Besides this post you have

  1. Jerusalem, the have-not whore
  2. Israel -- where there is a comparison of Biblical Israel to Modern Israel -- and you can guess it's not a pleasant one
  3. All Israel will be Saved, but not all Israel
  4. Jerusalem, Mother of all Harlots
  5. The restoration and conversion of Israel -- this soon descends into a fre for all anti-semitic fest

I'll agree that the overwhelming majority of Christians do not voice these opinions, yet the trend on Freerepublic is for the extreme hate groups like the OPC/PCA (members include such illustrious evictees as rjr_fan, orthodoxkirkpresbyterian, orthodoxpresbyterian,hankkerchief etc all zotted for either anti-semitic, anti-Christian or communist outbursts) to shout out more and more.

I fear that with their increasingly shill statements, they bring FR into disrepute. I'd rather they stayed on their website stormOPC

49 posted on 05/03/2011 2:22:58 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
"Do most Jews and Christians believe that Muslims acknowledge the same "Creator" as they do? The same "faith of Abraham?"

We have been through this before but you have never answered the questions that are fundamental to your false premise; How many Gods or Creators do you believe there are? If the Muslims acknowledge a god or creator, regardless of how imperfectly they do so, do they have the power to create a different god or are they just wrong about the one true God?

"Rome apparently thinks so.

"With so many "Romes" you are going to have to be far more specific. I've narrowed it down a little. Can you identify the one you are referring to from the line up?

1. Presbyterian Church of Rome, Rome, PA

2. Rome Presbyterian Church, Rome, Ohio

3. Rome Presbyterian Church, Proctorville, OH.

4. Rome Presbyterian Church, Rome, PA

5. Presbyterian Church of Scotland – Rome, Italy

6. First Presbyterian Church, Rome, GA

7. First Presbyterian Church, Rome, New York

8. First Presbyterian Church. Rome, Italy

9. St Andrew's Church, Rome, Italy

10. Westminster Presbyterian Church, Rome, GA

11. New Rome Presbyterian Churches, New Rome, OH

12. Rome Scottish Presbyterian Church, Rome, Italy

13. New Lyme Presbyterian Church of Rome, Rome, OH

"Liars.

What a refreshingly honest way for you to sign your post.

50 posted on 05/04/2011 8:58:12 AM PDT by Natural Law
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