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Naive assumptions about New World Christians (Mormon)
Mormon Times ^ | May 9, 2011 | Michael R. Ash

Posted on 05/09/2011 7:58:00 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

In last week’s issue I explained that even if evidence for an early Christian community in Mesoamerica could be found, that still wouldn’t satisfy most critics or prove that the Book of Mormon is true. The task of finding the evidence of a real ancient community of New World Christians becomes difficult once we understand the complexity and nature of what might be found.

First, it’s important to remember that the Nephites were “Christian” for, at the most, 400 years. Second, the Nephite-Christians were a small group of persecuted believers among a sea of non-Christian believers in the ancient Americas. Some critics have suggested that because the Book of Mormon claims that Christ visited the Americas, there should be an abundance of evidence for this miraculous event.

Such a suggestion, however, is not realistic. Jesus lived his mortal ministry for more than 30 years in the Old World, yet there is not an abundance of evidence outside of the Christian literature. There is some evidence that he lived, and most scholars (even non-Christian scholars) agree that Jesus was a real person. But the non-Christian evidence is not massive.

By the fourth century A.D. in the Americas, most of the Book of Mormon people had already rejected the accounts of their ancestors who claimed that Christ visited the Americas. Within just a handful of generations there seemed to be little non-Christian evidence that Christ had come to the Nephites; why would we think that any evidence would have survived for another millennium and a half?

But, some will argue, in the Old World we have evidence of Christ from Christian relic, writings, artwork and icons. This is very true. Why isn’t this the case for New World archaeology?

As noted over the past few weeks, when examining ancient evidence, archaeologists are working with a very fragmentary record. In general, they find physical evidence, but such evidence in and of itself doesn’t provide much information unless it's placed within a context — a framework by which it can be understood. For instance, if an archaeologist finds a pot (or, more likely, a fragment of a pot), that piece of history provides little evidence concerning the civilization that created or used the pot. Contextual clues — such as other artifacts uncovered near the pot — may provide some help determining the time frame in which the pot was last used, but it certainly doesn’t provide conclusive evidence as to what the civilization, or the individuals in that civilization, were like.

How, exactly, would an archaeologist distinguish a Christian-owned pot from that of a non-Christian? What would a Christian pot look like? What would a Nephite pot look like? If 1,500 years from now archaeologists dug up dishes, tools, appliances and cars (generally the types of things that would survive) from a house in Salt Lake City, how would they know if the owner was LDS?

A few weeks ago I quoted non-LDS post-doctoral fellow Ben Jeffares who explained:

“It is one thing to infer that an animal has been butchered by humans and not dogs, it is quite another to infer an artefact’s religious significance … as archaeologists try to infer facts about past political institutions, and then on to ideologies and religious beliefs, inferences become increasingly difficult and open to question.”

But wouldn’t Nephite-Christians have crosses, pictures of Jesus, or artwork depicting other uniquely Christian teachings? Mesoamerican ethnohistory specialist Brant Gardner answers that question:

“Archaeologists can only reconstruct religion from artifacts and preserved art. Iconography is the study of religious art and symbols of a people. Is there an exclusive Christian iconography? Would Christian iconography in the New World resemble that found in the Old World? The best way to understand the answer to this question is to examine the iconographic history of Israel and early Christianity. Both Israel and early Christianity were very comfortable borrowing and incorporating iconography from their neighbors, even when that iconography was part of their neighbor’s religion ...

"Both early Christians and at least the Hellenistic Jews accepted iconographic elements from surrounding cultures and incorporated them into their own art. Their iconography was not particularly unique; rather, it reflected the area and the time. … Saying that archaeologists cannot find evidence of Christianity in the New World simply demonstrates a simplistic assumption about what ought to be found.”

There are actually some very interesting correlations with some early American iconography and what we find in the Book of Mormon (to be discussed later), but if we approach the problem with preconceived expectations based on naive assumptions, it shouldn’t be any wonder if we don’t find what we are looking for.


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonbigotry; antimormonfatwa; antimormonhatred; antimormonjihad; antimormonjihadi; antimormonmanifesto; antimormonrant; bigot; bitterexmormon; blah; blahblah; blahblahblah; blahblahblahblah; christianity; hatefulexmormon; inman; lds; mormoaner; mormoaning; mormon; mormophobia; mormophobic; religiousbigotry; religiousintolerance; yammerhead
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To: laweeks; restornu
The man had all kinds of personal problems, plagiarized huge sections of our beloved Bible, had magic stones, did things behind curtains while his face was inside a hat, was run out of numerous towns across Northern America, said there are hundreds of thousands gods (and we could become one too), had problems with other peoples' wives and daughters, dreamed up European animals, plants, and technology, and said they existed here in the New World, said he'll be sitting next to Jesus when we "pass over," and conjured up Kolob, a magical planet somewhere out there.

NO!

You MUST be wrong!!


The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 


 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.


21 posted on 05/09/2011 12:02:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
You MUST be wrong!!

Sarcasm intended, I hope!

22 posted on 05/09/2011 12:06:09 PM PDT by laweeks
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To: laweeks

Sarcasm is in the eye of the beholder.

Heresy SHOULD be visible to all!


23 posted on 05/09/2011 12:09:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: allmendream
Joseph Smith was a fraud and nothing in the Book of Mormon is to be taken seriously as a record of any actual events of the real world.

Incredible that there are 10s of millions of people who honestly believe this stuff. I get the BYU channel here in Ohio and am amazed at the roundtable chats they have that mull over Joseph Smith's writings and marvel at his wisdom. These are apparently well-educated people who appear to be hardworking and "normal."

But to forsake Heaven and follow this man's work is bizarre to say the least. I feel so sorry for them to have been misled to this extent.

But they never address the rather simple issues that show Smith to be a fraud.

24 posted on 05/09/2011 12:13:17 PM PDT by laweeks
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To: Elsie
Sarcasm is in the eye of the beholder.

Heresy SHOULD be visible to all!

Yea and verily, I might addeth!

25 posted on 05/09/2011 12:15:53 PM PDT by laweeks
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26 posted on 05/09/2011 12:24:49 PM PDT by TheOldLady
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To: laweeks
My lds uncle has a PhD is geology and he takes it all on faith. He has said “there is zero evidence to support the BoM”. He believes it anyway “because that's what faith is”.
Seriously, boggles the mind.
27 posted on 05/09/2011 12:52:11 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; Tennessee Nana; ...
Click here to play "The All American Prophet" from the Book of Mormon play now on Broadway.
28 posted on 05/09/2011 2:28:54 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Why do people try to "out-nice" Jesus?)
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To: greyfoxx39

bttt


29 posted on 05/09/2011 2:44:47 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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THX 1138


30 posted on 05/09/2011 3:02:54 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: greyfoxx39

Gee, now I don’t have to travel to NYC. I am saved!(from spending a few thousand)


31 posted on 05/09/2011 3:21:44 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the Inman FReepers Meet July 23 Pray Jim Rob Can Make It)
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To: laweeks
(Mormons) to have been misled to this extent.

Willingly 'deceived' though they know otherwise they reject the truth and accept being spoonfed what to believe...and that's pure lazyness on their part.

This deception, happening throughout our nation and world, will grow increasingly stronger as people abandon the scriptures and follow deceiving spirits...which are more and more dominate today.

There is a scripture which reads something like this...By "PEACE" he shall destroy many.... Noteworthy is the varied references to PEACE used today by so many...as if that is possible. The anti-Christ will proclaim PEACE...and thru that destruction.

Anymore when I hear anyone use the word PEACE I am reminded that Moslems use it often...but it is used in their context, not ours, that there is no peace aside from thru ISlam. Mormons also claim their own brand of PEACE as they cuddle up to evil.

32 posted on 05/09/2011 5:25:21 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

placemarker


33 posted on 05/12/2011 8:56:17 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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