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Camping May 21 Rapture and the Replacement Theology Lie
vanity | 5/21/11 | marbren

Posted on 05/21/2011 4:46:26 AM PDT by marbren

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To: DaveMSmith
Say, have you got that Scripture that tells those who know Christ as Savior to follow the Old Testament Law, like sacrificing lambs to cover their sins?

Anyway, the Holy Spirit wrote:

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. (Matthew 24:36)

By declaring a date for the Rapture, Harold Camping deliberately and knowingly disobeyed God and played into Satan's hands. Therefore, the intention to disobey God and do evil was most certainly in his heart.

Your raptureready.com site is no better than Camping.

When you can start backing up your beliefs with Scripture, then you can criticize others.

101 posted on 05/21/2011 8:25:46 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Satan has been bound at the Cross, he can’t frustrate Jesus and His plan of salvation.


102 posted on 05/21/2011 8:25:53 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Reagan: "... there he goes again..."

Look in the mirror, Union...look in the mirror and behold! See yourself there.

103 posted on 05/21/2011 8:29:20 AM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Really? Then everyone on earth should be saved already, right?

And that should apply to everyone who has ever lived since Jesus died, right?

But there is one little problem. God says:

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. (1 Peter 5:8)

So according to the Holy Spirit, Satan is not bound but roams the earth.

As usual, I'm going to go with what God says.

104 posted on 05/21/2011 8:31:06 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Star Traveler

Hello Star Traveler I missed you! I would love your take on my OP.


105 posted on 05/21/2011 8:35:01 AM PDT by marbren
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
I'm preparing a Scripture filled post on what saves us that's loaded with Scripture based on an online Bible study from our Church that ought to satisfy you.

Do you approve of the gay lifestyle described as sin in the Old Testament? How about same-sex marriage? The sects embracing these throw out 'the law' too.

106 posted on 05/21/2011 8:39:05 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

i’m going with Rev 20. Jesus said in Matthew 12:29 “or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house”
Jesus bound the strong man Satan at the cross and the Church has been spoiling his house ( the pagan nations ) for 2,000 years.
Do you think Satan is the only reason everyone isn’t saved? don’t you know the heart of man is desperately wicked, who can know it? Man is seperated from God due to sin, not Satan. Jesus reconciles us to God in His Body, which is the Church. private interpertation of Scripture leads one to all kinds of weird theology.


107 posted on 05/21/2011 8:39:44 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: DaveMSmith
I'm preparing a Scripture filled post on what saves us that's loaded with Scripture based on an online Bible study from our Church that ought to satisfy you.

Somehow I doubt that very much.

Do you approve of the gay lifestyle described as sin in the Old Testament? How about same-sex marriage? The sects embracing these throw out 'the law' too.

So "sects" that embrace homosexuality have repented at the foot of the Cross, know Christ as Savior, have personal relationships with Him, seek to live His will for their lives, and renounce all that He has called abomination?

Wow, you learn something new every day.

108 posted on 05/21/2011 8:48:03 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
In his public “persona” he certainly did.

When giving speeches to his Nazi and German supporters he mentioned God and Jesus and Christianity repeatedly.

Read his speeches. Read his writings. If you can stomach them. They are about on par with the Unibomber Manifesto or Earth in the Balance in my mind - the ravings of a fanatic.

What he believed in his heart of hearts is open to debate.

What he said in his speeches and wrote in his book are not.

109 posted on 05/21/2011 8:48:46 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Somehow I doubt that very much.

Calling me a liar?

I'm saying a homosexual who takes Holy Communion is as unworthy as Judas.

110 posted on 05/21/2011 8:53:20 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: allmendream

my dear friend, your actions reveal what is in your heart. speeches are worthless, look at obama if you need proof. i don’t care how many times he mentioned God, Jesus or Christianity, his actions showed he believed none of it!!!


111 posted on 05/21/2011 8:57:37 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: DaveMSmith

why, homosexuals can’t eat bread?


112 posted on 05/21/2011 8:59:44 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Jesus bound the strong man Satan at the cross and the Church has been spoiling his house ( the pagan nations ) for 2,000 years.

Then you'll have a Scriptural explanation, I'm sure, for the ascension of Islam and the fact that Islam is steadily taking over pagan Europe, that more and more European nations are allowing Sharia law to circumvent their own laws, that the United States of America is legalizing homosexual "marriage" in more and more states, that the elected-by-the-majority president is turning on Israel in direct disobedience to God - I could go on but that's a decent start. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the Church has been "spoiling" pagan nations. The truth is that "paganism" in all it's forms is gaining strength, just like Jesus said it would right before His return, and the Church not only is not stopping it, but is powerless to stop it.

The idea that the Church will "Christianize" the world is a false doctrine that cannot be supported by Scripture and is proven false by the reality in the world today.

According to Jesus Christ, Satan is not bound until after the seven-year Tribulation and after Jesus literally returns to earth:

1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time. (Revelation 20:1-3)

So not only does God say that in this present Age Satan roams the earth, but God then says that Satan will not be bound until Christ literally returns.

Why do you think that Scripture consistently contradict your doctrine?

113 posted on 05/21/2011 9:00:19 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
True enough.

But there was a strong current of antisemitism present in Germany that he tapped into making reference to “my Saviors blood upon the cross”.

He called them “capitalists” to appeal to atheist socialist antisemitism.

There wasn't and wouldn't have been a current of thought that he wouldn't have appealed to - in my opinion - that could drum up antisemetic sentiment.

Luther tapped into the same sentiment in his book “On the Jews and their Lies”.

But I wouldn't go around blaming Hitler on Luther - that is a Godwin's Rule leap that should be beyond any rational mind.

114 posted on 05/21/2011 9:03:02 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: DaveMSmith
Oh get over yourself.

So far you have failed to demonstrate with Scripture that your beliefs have anything to do with what Jesus has told us about salvation and I doubt very much that you and your Bible study will change that.

I'm saying a homosexual who takes Holy Communion is as unworthy as Judas.

A practicing homosexual does not know Christ as Savior and will spend eternity in hell no matter how many times he takes communion.

115 posted on 05/21/2011 9:03:46 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

there is no literal seven year tribulation period. Islam is the product of wicked, sinful men. i never said the world would be “christianized”. we are in the thousand year period today, it just isn’t a literal 1,000 years. Scripture doesn’t contradict my doctrine, it’s what Christians have believed for 2,000 years. you apparently accepted this “pre-trib” rapture nonsense that was invented in the 19th century.


116 posted on 05/21/2011 9:07:21 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Do you approve of the breakneck acceptance of homosexuality by churches all over? Do you see wisdom in Lev 18:22 “ ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable?


117 posted on 05/21/2011 9:09:45 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: allmendream

evil men will say whatever they have to, or blame whoever they have to, in order to perform their evil deeds. Hitler is Exhibit A.


118 posted on 05/21/2011 9:09:48 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Agree 100%


119 posted on 05/21/2011 9:10:24 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: DaveMSmith

absolutely not, i view the emergence of homosexuality as one of the signs the end is near. the biggest sign is the great apostosy ( falling away ) that is happening in the Catholic Church. the end won’t happen until Satan is loosed, the abomination that causes desolation will be sitting in the holy place ( ruling the Church ), there will be a great falling away to such an extent that Jesus asked whether He would find any faith on earth when He returned. the acceptance of homosexuality is shocking and proof Jesus must return soon.


120 posted on 05/21/2011 9:14:59 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

The Catholics I know and am related to live good holy lives based on their churches teachings. I know I’ll be in heaven with them even if they worship differently here.


121 posted on 05/21/2011 9:28:43 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: DaveMSmith

there is a remnant, but as a whole Churches are empty ( especially in Europe ), men and women entering religous life is practically nonexistent ( therefore accepting obvious homosexuals to the priesthood ), there is no more missionary activity going on and the last Pope had a meeting at Assisi where he brought in all these pagan religous leaders and did not proclaim their need for faith in Jesus to them!! absolutely shocking, Jesus was in effect put on par with Mohammed and Bhudda! the Church no longer proclaims Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, He now is A way, A truth, A life. this is apostosy and surely proof Jesus is at the door!!!


122 posted on 05/21/2011 9:36:18 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Alamo-Girl

Thank You Alamo-Girl, God’s Word does have the answers.


123 posted on 05/21/2011 9:36:52 AM PDT by marbren
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To: Quix

Maybe Camping needs a seminar from Amy Semple and you to set him straight.


124 posted on 05/21/2011 9:37:53 AM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
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To: RegulatorCountry
Thank You RegulatorCountry, The answer to my question was right there in front of me in God's word!
125 posted on 05/21/2011 9:38:52 AM PDT by marbren
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
there is no literal seven year tribulation period.

The books of Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation all tell us that the tribulation will last for two periods of 42 months, or 1260 days. (Which are based on 30 day months)

The period will begin with the signing of a peace agreement between the 'man of sin', or the antichrist, and the nation of Israel:

Daniel 9:27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

The week is a week of years. In Daniel 12:11, it states specifically that from the abomination of desolation, there will be 1290 days. The 1290 days is when Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah will come to reign on the earth.

Daniel 12:9-12: And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end-time. Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand. And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1290 days. How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1335 days."

The sequence of the prophetic events from Daniel 9:12 and Daniel 12 is that a peace treaty would have to be struck 3.5 years before the abomination of desolation. Then the sacrifices are stopped, and the abomination of desolation performed in the Temple takes place where a person declares himself falsely to be God in the holy place of the Temple. Only after those events do the armies surround Jerusalem. Then exactly 1290 days later the Messiah comes visibly to reign on the earth. 45 days after the Second Coming, all the people of the earth are judged. During the 45 days, all governments and armies on earth are defeated and subdued.

So yes, Scripture is clear and unambiguous, that there will be a literal, seven year Tribulation.

Islam is the product of wicked, sinful men.

But Satan is the author of evil. How can evil still exist if Satan is bound and unable to influence men? If Satan is bound, then there would be no obstacle to people being saved. What a conundrum, huh?

we are in the thousand year period today, it just isn’t a literal 1,000 years.

We are? We're in the thousand year period today? Jesus said that during His thousand year reign, He would literally rule from Jerusalem and the earth would be restored to it's original form. Jesus said during His literal, thousand year reign, the lion would lay down with the lamb. Why isn't that happening? Jesus Himself said that His kingdom would be for a literal, thousand years. You're not allegorizing that text are you? Where do you get the authority to change the meaning of what God said and allegorize His words?

Scripture doesn’t contradict my doctrine, it’s what Christians have believed for 2,000 years. you apparently accepted this “pre-trib” rapture nonsense that was invented in the 19th century.

No, Christians haven't believed your doctrine for 2,000 years. The heresy of allegorizing Scripture into meaninglessness came several hundred years after the Church was established. And as far as this "pre-trib rapture nonsense" that you so smugly throw out, let me refer you to The Rapture and Glorious Appearing of Jesus Christ. Like I told someone else a few days ago, the attempt to use John Darby and anything from the "19th century" to discredit and deny Scripture is played out. You'll have to find some new material.

In the meantime, you can try to dismiss the Scripture that predates the 19th century by a couple thousand years, which details the event of the Rapture and the fact that Christ will take His bride off the scene before He judges the earth.

That should keep you busy for awhile.

126 posted on 05/21/2011 9:40:20 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Alex Murphy

Thank You Alex Murphy for the opposing view.


127 posted on 05/21/2011 9:40:33 AM PDT by marbren
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I like Vernon McGee’s response to the amillenial perspective where they believe Satan is bound in chains at present,......Vernon responded, that must be a pretty long chain, sortof how you tether a cow in a pasture,...where he can still roam over the entire Earth.


128 posted on 05/21/2011 9:41:37 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr
LOL!!

That's perfect! I had never heard that. Thanks for the laugh!

129 posted on 05/21/2011 9:44:30 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
There are whole new ways of worship like ustream and EWTN that aren't measured in church attendance.

Ministers who preach hatred of the Catholic Church breaks up families and is hardly useful. I would suggest an agenda is driving their doctrine in many cases.

130 posted on 05/21/2011 9:44:30 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: Fred Hayek
Thus, a further problem with replacement theology - you would have to throw out the entire Old Testament. Yet the Old Testament points to the New Testament, Jesus Christ.

Since no replacement theologian whom I know of is calling for the abandonment of the OT, your conclusion seems quite suspect. What in replacement theology would require that? Allowing our understanding of the OT to be shaped by the NT writers is certainly not an abandonment of the OT. The author of the book of Hebrews provides commentary on the Jeremiah passage that you quoted in Hebrews 8, although not your exact verse, and is perfectly consistent with replacement theology that God the Father is dealing with mankind differently than in the past.

In response to a couple of other posts, let me add this. While anti-Semites might latch on to replacement theology, not all (or even most) replacement theologians or people who hold to the theology are anti-Semite.

131 posted on 05/21/2011 9:45:06 AM PDT by CommerceComet (Governor Romney, why would any conservative vote for the author of the beta version of ObamaCare?)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

the sacrifice was abolished at the cross, Jesus is our sacrifice.
Jesus is ruling now, in the hearts of the Body of Christ, the Church.
The Church is the new Israel of God, not the Hebrew people. The Holy place of God is the Church, not some rebuilt Temple in physical Jerusalem. Jerusalem ( the Church ) is surrounded by armies, read the paper!!
your problem is you don’t understand what the Church is and it’s importance according to the Scriptures.
and yes, your beliefs are a 19th century invention, just like Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists!!


132 posted on 05/21/2011 9:49:57 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: DaveMSmith

i am Catholic and am witnessing the falling away right before my eyes.


133 posted on 05/21/2011 9:51:41 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Cvengr

**tether a cow in a pasture,...where he **

Funny, I always thought a cow was a ‘she’ and a bull was a ‘he’


134 posted on 05/21/2011 9:52:41 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marbren
Look, you must return to reality and see the harm Camping has caused is a product of Sola Scriptura and the reformation encouraging the prideful self worshiping of self instead of Jesus

Many of these posters worship their sinful selves or space cadets or the gospel of prosperity and refuse to sublimate their wills to the voice of the Spirit. The sin of pride is the original sin of Satan.

135 posted on 05/21/2011 9:52:49 AM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
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To: marbren
I am currently reading this book. A much different story than Camping's

BTW, this book was written in 1881; you wouldn't believe how accurate it is!

The End of the Present World
 
Reading this book was one of the greatest graces of my life!"
— St. Thérèse of Lisieux

In the late nineteenth century, Father Charles Arminjon, a priest from the mountains of southeastern France, assembled his flock in the town cathedral to preach a series of conferences to help them turn their thoughts away from this life’s mean material affairs—and toward the next life’s glorious spiritual reward. His wise and uncompromising words deepened in them the spirit of recollection that all Christians must have: the abiding conviction that heavenly aims, not temporal enthusiasms, must guide everything we think, say, and do.

When Father Arminjon’s conferences were later published in a book, many others were able to reap the same benefit—including fourteen-year-old Thérèse Martin, then on the cusp of entering the Carmelite convent in Lisieux. Reading it, she says, “plunged my soul into a happiness not of this earth.” Young Thérèse, filled with a sense of “what God reserves for those who love him, and seeing that the eternal rewards had no proportion to the light sacrifices of life,” copied out numerous passages and memorized them, “repeating unceasingly the words of love burning in my heart.”

Now the very book that so inspired the Little Flower is available for the first time in English.

Let the pages of The End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life fill you with the same burning words of love, with the same ardent desire to know God above all created things, that St. Thérèse gained from them. Let them also enrich your understanding of certain teachings of the Faith that can often seem so mysterious, even frightening:

  • The signs that will precede the world’s end
  • The coming of the Antichrist, and how to recognize him
  • The Judgment and where it may send us: heaven, hell, and purgatory
  • Biblical end-times prophecy: how to read it and not be deceived

    Jesus commands us to be ever-watchful for his return, and ever-mindful that we have no lasting city on earth. The End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life is an invaluable aid to inculcating in your spirit that heavenly orientation, without which true human happiness cannot be found—in this world or the next.


136 posted on 05/21/2011 9:54:27 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Well sure — the lawless guilt-free pastors are drawing to mega-churches.


137 posted on 05/21/2011 9:54:49 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: bronx2

amen, amen, amen. these people don’t realize the Holy Spirit has guided and preserved the Church for 2,000 years and the Holy Spirit isn’t the author of confusion!!!!!!!!!!


138 posted on 05/21/2011 9:55:05 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: CommerceComet

What is your opinion of what Obama is doing to Israel today.


139 posted on 05/21/2011 9:55:48 AM PDT by marbren
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To: marbren

“I agree, pew sitting fire insurance does not work.”

LOL! That’s just funny!


140 posted on 05/21/2011 10:00:21 AM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: PapaBear3625

I tell you what...this religion stuff. It’s hard to know exactly what to believe.


141 posted on 05/21/2011 10:00:35 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
When asking which one of the 30,000 discrete cults Satan is advising today, don't forget to include Camping. It would go well if one read the bible with a sincere heart without seeking false rationalizations as "Replacement Theology" for the cause of Camping's fall from grace.

When you start down the path of Sola Scriptura you are walking hand and hand with Satan. Camping's tribulations are the result of SOLA SCRIPTURA and to deny that is to be spiritually bankrupt.

142 posted on 05/21/2011 10:02:23 AM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
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To: marbren

I think they’ve been celebrating my FR straight jacket too much to bother. Or, maybe they’ve been loading up for the next round of irrational, tunnel visioned, TYPE I ERROR laden blasts.


143 posted on 05/21/2011 10:04:04 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Yardstick

All you need to do is start learning about the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Everything else fades into the shadows then.


144 posted on 05/21/2011 10:05:02 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Jesus is ruling now, in the hearts of the Body of Christ, the Church.

That doesn't negate the fact that what the Holy Spirit tells us will happen with regard to the literal return of Christ and His literal reign on earth is absolute, literal truth and is going to happen just as certainly as the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah were fulfilled in the Person of Jesus Christ.

During the Church Age, Jesus does rule in the hearts of those who know Him as Savior. But this age is coming to a close, and the rest of Scripture is just as factual as the Scripture which tells us that those of us who know Christ are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is absolute, inerrant truth from the first word in Genesis to the last word in Revelation. And all that is prophesied about the return of Christ is going to happen.

The Church is the new Israel of God, not the Hebrew people. The Holy place of God is the Church, not some rebuilt Temple in physical Jerusalem. Jerusalem ( the Church ) is surrounded by armies, read the paper!!

Oh dear. You're further gone than I thought. I can't imagine the denial of Scripture that goes into coming to the conclusion that you have.

From http://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html

snip

Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?

The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is completely different and distinct from Israel, and the two are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings are valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God's program during these past 2000 years of dispersion.

After the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18), God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the great tribulation for the second coming of the Messiah. Then, when Christ does return to the earth, at the end of the tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel which survives the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1-5).

...the strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1-7, where it says six times that Christ's kingdom will last 1000 years. After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations. The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan. While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen (Romans 11).

I guess you have to make a choice - deny what God has clearly said about His chosen people and remain mired in ignorance and error, or simply accept the fact that the Jews are His chosen people, they have been blinded temporarily because of their disobedience but that blindness will be lifted and they will be restored into a relationship with their God. Nowhere in Scripture does God even hint that the Church is the new Israel or that the Church has replaced Israel. No one has ever been able to produce any Biblical passages to support replacement theology. All a person does by clinging to this heresy is put himself at enmity with God. A very dangerous place to be, since God never loses.

your problem is you don’t understand what the Church is and it’s importance according to the Scriptures.

You're problem is that you're so desperate to cling to your false doctrines that you have no problem denying Scripture and allegorizing it and twisting it to fit your heresy. You have provided no Scripture whatsoever to support your false doctrine.

and yes, your beliefs are a 19th century invention, just like Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists!!

You have been emphatically proven wrong, and yet you cling to your lies like a lifeline. I notice that you didn't bring up one verse of Scripture I referred you to and you didn't bring it up because Scripture absolutely demolishes your beliefs. So, in the end, you discard the truth of Scripture for your man-created lies.

I feel very sorry for you.

145 posted on 05/21/2011 10:11:52 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Yardstick
I tell you what...this religion stuff. It’s hard to know exactly what to believe.

By picking and choosing, you can "prove" anything you want. Believe in what feels right.

146 posted on 05/21/2011 10:11:57 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("It is only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything" -- Fight Club)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; ...

An interesting question.

I’d love to see Marbren, Uriel 2012, Alamo-Girl and some others’ thoughtful responses on that question.

My own conjecture is that there will always be blood Israeli’s serving in key ceremonial/leader roles in whatever main literal TEMPLE exists. I think there are several Scriptures that could be taken to hint at that. Words like “for ever” and “everlasting” are used in describing the tenure of such priestly roles of such blood descendents, IIRC.

I don’t doubt that grafted in Christians will be right up there in the ranks in a list of ways and senses. I just think God has a penchant for doing as I noted above as a nod and honor to His buddy Abraham.

There seems to be two themes throughout Scripture in terms of God’s sensibilities on such matters.

One, Everyone is equal before the altar, before the throne, before The Cross—in terms of worth as created in God’s image.

Two, some are given roles and honors that are at least tentatively and provisionally passed down faithfully genetically in a DIVINE RIGHT OF KINGS sort of fashion.

For example, I would not be surprised to see the literal King David ruline in Jerusalem under Christ. At least one Scripture hints or stronger at that.

Three, Individuality is evidently priceless to God. I think efforts to homogenize a class of genetically engineered human robotic slaves is extremely abhorent to God.

Four, tribal purity and integrity has some . . . value, priority to The Lord. That case is a bit harder to build but I think there’s several Old Testament Scriptures that hint at it. He certainly didn’t want Israel marrying willy nilly.

Of course that had to do with avoiding idol worship etc. But I’m not convinced those were the only reasons for that PREFERENCE on God’s part.

God seems to be both a sort of TRADITIONALIST AS WELL AS CONTINUALLY CREATING ALL THINGS NEW.


147 posted on 05/21/2011 10:16:24 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: bronx2
I absolutely believe that Camping is a cultist. I believe that he is narcissistic, and craves adoration and adulation.

When you start down the path of Sola Scriptura you are walking hand and hand with Satan.

You know, I think I might agree with that if even one verse of Scripture had been proven to be false. But somehow, the Bible, alone and without the added writings of(mostly dead) fallen men, has been shown over the years to be inerrant truth, without mistake and without blemish. I mean, all we have to do is look at all the fulfilled prophecies to know without one shred of doubt that the Bible is the inspired word of the living God and has not one untruth or error in it.

Based on those facts, I simply can't reconcile that believing the Bible is the final authority is walking hand in hand with Satan. That's kind of bizarre, actually, considering that God said He is the Author of Scripture.

148 posted on 05/21/2011 10:18:00 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: LurkLongley; Amityschild; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; HossB86; ...

NONSENSE. There’s AT LEAST

AS MANY

factions within the Vatican Alice In Wonderland School of Theology And Reality Mangling Cult

as there are Proddy denominations.

Are you REALLLLLY trying to tell us that the Jesuits and the Latin ONLY mass folks have been bossom buddies for 1600 years? LOL.

What a smelly pile of farce.


149 posted on 05/21/2011 10:19:10 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: marbren
What is your opinion of what Obama is doing to Israel today.

It is at best, grossly irresponsible, and more likely criminal. While I don't hold that the current political state of Israel has any special place in God's Redemptive Plan for His people, I believe that America needs to fiercely defend her for at least a couple of reasons. First, Israel is our best ally in the Middle East. Second, allowing Israel to fall to the Palestinian Muslims would lead to a great genocide. Finally, I hope the Holy Spirit will enlighten the people of Israel and they will realize that their Messiah has already come.

150 posted on 05/21/2011 10:20:36 AM PDT by CommerceComet (Governor Romney, why would any conservative vote for the author of the beta version of ObamaCare?)
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