Did Mary Have Other Children?

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Unknown | Matt Slick

[HarleyD]

One of the more controversial teachings of the Catholic church deals with the perpetual virginity of Mary. This doctrine maintains that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and that biblical references suggesting Jesus had siblings are really references to cousins (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 510).

As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)

• Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
• Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
• Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"
• John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."
• Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
• 1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
• Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."

An initial reading of these biblical texts seems to clear up the issue: Jesus had brothers and sisters. But such obvious scriptures are not without their response from Catholic Theologians. The primary argument against these biblical texts is as follows:

In Greek, the word for brother is adelphos and sister is adelphe. This word is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents (Matt. 1:2; 14:3), descendants of parents (Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5), the Jews as a whole (Acts 3:17, 22), etc. Therefore, the term brother (and sister) can and does refer to the cousins of Jesus.

There is certainly merit in this argument, However, different contexts give different meanings to words. It is not legitimate to say that because a word has a wide scope of meaning, that you may then transfer any part of that range of meaning to any other text that uses the word. In other words, just because the word brother means fellow Jews or cousin in one place, does not mean it has the same meaning in another. Therefore, each verse should be looked at in context to see what it means.

Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.

• Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father? In other words, mother here refers to Mary. The carpenter in Matt. 13:55, refers to Joseph. These are literal. Yet, the Catholic theologian will then stop there and say, "Though carpenters son refers to Joseph, and mother refers to Mary, brothers does not mean brothers, but "cousins." This does not seem to be a legitimate assertion. You cannot simply switch contextual meanings in the middle of a sentence unless it is obviously required. The context is clear. This verse is speaking of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus brothers. The whole context is of familial relationship: father, mother, and brothers.

Psalm 69, A Messianic Psalm

There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, they hated Me without a cause."

He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Fathers house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me."

Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted.

To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."

This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." Gods will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers.

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase "my mother's sons" is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.

The question is, "Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?". Yes, He was. John 7:5 says "For not even His brothers were believing in Him." Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both "my brothers" and "my mother's sons." Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that "brothers" must mean "cousins." But, if that is the case, then when we read "an alien to my mother's sons" we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.

[narses]

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)

[Gamecock]

Now Doc, expecting Scriptural precision from the Roman Catholics is akin to demanding good science from AlGore.

[narses]

[jla]

Our Lady was the epitome of innocence and purity. She was a virgin in the truest sense of the word. And for the record, her progenitors were very carefully chosen and given strict instructions in regard to how to conduct their lives. Which wasn't difficult I'd assume given that they were being instructed by God via His Spirit or that of one of His Angels.

Maria ascended directly to Paradise upon her human death, and soon thereafter her body also was lifted to Heaven. She immediately joined the Holy Trinity and became Mother of the Church.

Now, enough of this Marian bashing. :^)

[simonjo]

Catholics do not worship Mary, we honor her because she is the Mother of God. We pray to Mary to request a favor of her Son Jesus.

[Blood of Tyrants]

And where is it biblical that you should pray to anyone except God?

[narses]

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.

Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.

Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
sanctorum communionem;
remissionem peccatorum;
carnis resurrectionem;
vitam aeternam. Amen.

In English:

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen

[MHGinTN]

Selah

[Natural Law]

"Nowhere in the bible does it call for followers of Christ to be the co-redeemers. And Christ’s sufferings lack nothing and therefore need nothing."

Are you calling St. Paul a liar?

"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church,"
- Col 1:24

"Praying to Mary is worship of her when we can go to God directly."

Do you also accuse St. Paul of rejecting the meadiatorship of Jesus? What about St. James or St. John? St. Paul on many occasions tells us to make intercessory prayers (Rom 15:30; 2 Cor 1:11; Eph 6:18-19; Col 4:3; 1 Thes 5:17,25; 2 Thes 3:1; Philemon 1:22; Heb 13:18-19), so does James (Jam 5:14,16) and John (1 Jn 5:16).

Paul himself was constantly praying intercessory prayers (2 Cor 13:7,9; Col 1:3,9; 2 Thes 1:11; 2 Tim 1:3), taking it upon himself to play this intercessory role. John did too (3 Jn 1:2).

[MsLady]

Good point, I’ll have to pray, read and think on that one for awhile.

[daniel1212]

Ps. 69:8 is part of a a Messianic prophecy, (Ps. 69:9; Jn. 2:17) and is one of many evidences against this unnecessary, if not salvific, teaching of perpetual virginity, which requires a degree of special pleading if it is defended as being from Scripture, rather than oral Tradition. I think that Joseph showed the greater virtue is Mary remained a virgin, and while linguists can argue (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?108759-Greek-quot-until-quot-In-Matt-1-25) whether heōs (“till” in Mt. 1:25 http://www.justforcatholics.org/a105.htm) or "adelphos" ("brethren in Mt.12:42) warrants either side, and against the normal denotation, but among other things perpetual virginity in marriage is contrary to the description of marriage that Jesus affirmed, (Gn. 2:24; Mt. 19:5) for you have “leave” without “cleave” in becoming one flesh (which oneness spiritually is also intercourse: Jn. 17:23) as well as being contrary to the apostolic instructions regarding celibacy within marriage. (1Cor. 7:5) In no place do we see anyone maintaining perpetual virginity in marriage, providing both were able, and Scripture says nothing about Mary being an exception, which is contrary to how exceptions in basic things are treated, and thus the virgin birth is clearly stated, as well as the sinless life of Christ. But autocracy allows men to teach for doctrines the traditions of men. If defending the above or any RC teaching, Catholics actually have much liberty to interpret the Bible to do so, however, this is not a salvific issue, and so i do not see it needing more extended debate.

[Quix]

Another posting

of the UNBIBLICAL fantasized fables of the Vatican Cult.

---

The following Heavenly visitation is GREATLY MORE BIBLICAL (which isn’t hard to be given the givens of the Vatican Cult fantasies):

http://endtimerevelations.org/downloads/RaptureTrib-Canela.pdf

Visions of the Rapture, Tribulation, the Holy City, & the Thrones of GOD and satan.

The testimony of an 8 year old girl who encountered Jesus Christ.

(Jannet Balderas Canela)

. . .

It was so beautiful; the presence of the Lord could be felt there, such glory and majesty! The Lord said, “Servant, come here because I will show you other things.” We arrive at a place with many beautiful doors, so many beautiful doors. I said, “Lord what’s behind those doors?” He said,

3 “Behind these doors are My disciples, behind these doors are My apostles, behind these doors are all those who once walked over the Earth praising and glorifying My Name.” -

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . MARY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

We began to ride again and arrive at a door that was half-opened, and the Lord said,

“Servant come here, come here because behind this door is Mary. Get close and hear what she is saying, so you can go and tell My people, so you can tell the people how Mary is suffering.”

I got closer and saw a young lady, such a beautiful young lady, so beautiful, her face was so pretty. She was looking through a very tiny window. She was kneeling down and looking to the face of the Earth, crying with tremendous pain.

She said, “Why are you worshiping me? Why, if I do not have any power! Why are you worshiping me? I do not do anything! Do not worship me! Do not bow before me! For I cannot save you! The only one that can save, the only one that can redeem you is Jesus, who died for all mankind!

Many people say that I have power, that I can perform miracles, but that is a lie! I do not do anything! Almighty God was satisfied with me and He used my womb so that Jesus could be born and save everyone, but I don’t have any power.

I cannot do anything! Do not bow before me! Do not worship me! For I am not worthy of worship. The only one that is worthy, the only one that you bow before and adore is Jesus! He is the only one that heals and saves!”

I could see how that young lady was in such tremendous pain, full of anguish and crying. She said, “No! No! Do not worship me! Why do you bow before me? I don’t do anything!”

You see dear brothers, it was a tremendous thing to look at this young lady, how she was crying with such pain and sadness.

[Blood of Tyrants]

I am accusing YOU of misinterpreting the bible. And Mary IS NOT Jesus, who is God.

[Natural Law]

"I missed the smell of brimstone in the morning."

DONKEY: (sniffs) Ohh! Shrek! Did you do that? You gotta warn somebody before you just crack one off. My mouth was open and everything.

SHREK: Believe me, Donkey, if it was me, you'd be dead. (sniffs) It's brimstone. We must be getting close.

DONKEY: Yeah, right, brimstone. Don't be talking about it's the brimstone. I know what I smell. It wasn't no brimstone. It didn't come off no stone neither.

[Quix]

the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat's.
.

Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
--ALL HINT OF SUCH--
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.

ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE:

Here's the title:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Meditations-Mysteries-Rosary-Ferraro/dp/0819801577/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272938246&sr=1-2

And it carries the official sanctions of:

ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.

WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR

Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .

Here they are:

However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.

p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .

p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.

5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.

6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.

"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor

p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence

p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18

p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"

p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]

p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]

9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]

p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]

5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]

p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."

p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"

p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."

[Natural Law]

"I missed the smell of brimstone in the morning."

DONKEY: (sniffs) Ohh! Shrek! Did you do that? You gotta warn somebody before you just crack one off. My mouth was open and everything.

SHREK: Believe me, Donkey, if it was me, you'd be dead. (sniffs) It's brimstone. We must be getting close.

DONKEY: Yeah, right, brimstone. Don't be talking about it's the brimstone. I know what I smell. It wasn't no brimstone. It didn't come off no stone neither.

[RegulatorCountry]

I’m kind of curious why Jesus’s “brothers and sisters” didn’t speak up. Why didn’t we hear from ANY of them? They had the chance to write or say something. Jesus apostles could’ve talked about them.

You hear from two brothers of Jesus every time you read the Bible the whole way through, FLC-atholic, assuming you've done so. The Book of James and the Book of Jude.

[Quix]

. . . which is a sizeable slap at Jesus

. . . implying that His excruciating sacrificial death

SO THAT

WE MIGHT HAVE DIRECT ACCESS TO THE FATHER

just isn’t good enough for RC’s . . .

who just HAVE to have mummy nag Him.

[daniel1212]

Lets see, where did some html get in there?

Ps. 69:8 is part of a Messianic prophecy, (Ps. 69:9; Jn. 2:17) and is one of many evidences against this unnecessary, if not salvific, teaching of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which requires a degree of special pleading if it is defended as being from Scripture, rather than oral Tradition. I think that Joseph showed the greater virtue is Mary remained a virgin, and while linguists can argue whether “heos” (“till” in Mt. 1:25) or "adelphos" ("brethren in Mt.12:42) warrants either side, and against the normal denotation, but among other things perpetual virginity in marriage is contrary to the description of marriage that Jesus affirmed, (Gn. 2:24; Mt. 19:5) for you have “leave” without “cleave” in becoming one flesh (which oneness spiritually is also intercourse: Jn. 17:23) as well as being contrary to the apostolic instructions regarding celibacy within marriage. (1Cor. 7:5)

In no place do we see anyone maintaining perpetual virginity in marriage, providing both were able, and Scripture says nothing about Mary being an exception, which is contrary to how exceptions in basic things are treated, and thus the virgin birth is clearly stated, as well as the sinless life of Christ. But autocracy allows men to teach for doctrines the extra-Biblical traditions of men.

If defending the Marian perpetual virginity (MPV) or any RC teaching, Catholics actually have much liberty to interpret the Bible to do so, however, beyond what is officially stated and using private interpretation, yet MPV is not a salvific issue, and so i do not see it needing more extended debate.