Did Mary Have Other Children?

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Unknown | Matt Slick

[HarleyD]

One of the more controversial teachings of the Catholic church deals with the perpetual virginity of Mary. This doctrine maintains that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and that biblical references suggesting Jesus had siblings are really references to cousins (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 510).

As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)

• Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
• Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
• Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"
• John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."
• Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
• 1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
• Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."

An initial reading of these biblical texts seems to clear up the issue: Jesus had brothers and sisters. But such obvious scriptures are not without their response from Catholic Theologians. The primary argument against these biblical texts is as follows:

In Greek, the word for brother is adelphos and sister is adelphe. This word is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents (Matt. 1:2; 14:3), descendants of parents (Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5), the Jews as a whole (Acts 3:17, 22), etc. Therefore, the term brother (and sister) can and does refer to the cousins of Jesus.

There is certainly merit in this argument, However, different contexts give different meanings to words. It is not legitimate to say that because a word has a wide scope of meaning, that you may then transfer any part of that range of meaning to any other text that uses the word. In other words, just because the word brother means fellow Jews or cousin in one place, does not mean it has the same meaning in another. Therefore, each verse should be looked at in context to see what it means.

Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.

• Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father? In other words, mother here refers to Mary. The carpenter in Matt. 13:55, refers to Joseph. These are literal. Yet, the Catholic theologian will then stop there and say, "Though carpenters son refers to Joseph, and mother refers to Mary, brothers does not mean brothers, but "cousins." This does not seem to be a legitimate assertion. You cannot simply switch contextual meanings in the middle of a sentence unless it is obviously required. The context is clear. This verse is speaking of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus brothers. The whole context is of familial relationship: father, mother, and brothers.

Psalm 69, A Messianic Psalm

There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, they hated Me without a cause."

He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Fathers house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me."

Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted.

To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."

This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." Gods will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers.

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase "my mother's sons" is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.

The question is, "Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?". Yes, He was. John 7:5 says "For not even His brothers were believing in Him." Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both "my brothers" and "my mother's sons." Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that "brothers" must mean "cousins." But, if that is the case, then when we read "an alien to my mother's sons" we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.

[Titanites]

No. My assertions stand about those verses. In the context of the whole of Scripture and in the context of the culture and mindsets of the culture . . . the verses make no sense unless they are referring as fair-minded translators accurately depict— about Christ’s blood half brothers and sisters by the authentic Mary.

Yes, you keep saying this, but without providing some supporting evidence your assertions are nothing but empty, as opposed to narses' post which included evidence from Scripture.

[Titanites]

Rationalized smoke, mirrors, rubberized ‘bibles’ and concocted Magicsterical !!!!TRADITION!!!! are all horrid things with which to try and understand authentic Biblical Truth.

You neglected to add "Quix's assertions".

[Quix]

Only in your fantasies.

[Titanites]

Only in your fantasies.

Claiming to know my fantasies is minding reading. Please try to abide by the rules.

[Quix]

NOPE.

Was only talking about what you posted.

[Titanites]

NOPE. Was only talking about what you posted.

You claimed that what I posted was in my fantasies. It's not a fantasy; indeed using "Quix's assertions" is a horrid thing with which to try and understand authentic Biblical Truth.

[Quix]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, yes . . .

according to

Pope Titanites.

[bow, scrape, kissing toes and rings, crawling away backwards]

LOL

[Natural Law]

"Accuracy in labeling for the lurkers."

Do you really believe that the "lurkers" heed any of the muck slung on these threads and make decisions involving their immortal souls based upon those types of characterizations?

"As long as the Vatican cultists hereon propagate the more outrageous cultish beliefs, practices and dogma, I expect to continue to use the more accurate label."

One of the things I respect and admire about the Pentacostal movement is their passion and demonstrable love of Jesus. That same passion is blunted when it is used as a means to denegrate other Christians and sew discord and hatred. Frankly, you and the Pentacostal movement are better than that.

I personally think all Proddys should."

I really wish you wouldn't use the term "Proddy". It is analogous to blacks calling each other the n-word. It is disrespectful towards the millions of decent and pious Protestants and is used as an excuse to use anti-Catholic slurs such as RC, papist,etc.

[Quix]

. . . am ready to attend to other priorities . . .

enjoy your mental . . . fondlings

I hope the bunnies are facilitating your furry meditations.

[Cronos]

hoping the lights come on for you. In a traditional society like that of Israel 2000 years ago, like the Semitic world today, the eldest son does not give the custody of the widowed mother to a stranger if there are younger brothers or sisters.

That is not done

Stop looking at things through the prism of today and see how a different culture in a different time did things

[Cronos]

Scripture links the ark of the old covenant to the ark of the new covenant

Ezekiel 44 indicates the prince which is Jesus, so not intercourse with him..

[Cronos]

so, wait a minute -- you dispute this, yet don't you believe that Jesse Duplantis "preaches the scripture"?

Jesse Duplantis who says

"With fierce prayers and determination to see my mother healed, I started talking to God. "What is going on here?! I'm praying! Dad's praying! Why isn't she healed? You cannot allow death to defeat me, God. You made a covenant with me through Jesus' blood! And that covenant says by His stripes we were healed! Where is that healing? If you break this covenant with me, you'll have to cease to be God! You must keep covenant with me. You must obey your Word!"

[Cronos]

how can anyone say Jesse Duplantis’ Heaven visit revealed a visual experience at The Throne vis a vis Christ being in The Father and The Father being in Christ that portrayed it about as well as I’d ever heard of.

when Jesse, the demonic con-man Duplantis gives a new revelation that God is a mile-high and surrounded by a huge wall and actually in the shape of a man, is that what you would consider "revealed to us"? Is it a new revelation?

[Cronos]

do note -- the question was does Jesse Duplantis' revelation that God is a mile-high and surrounded by a huge wall and actually in the shape of a man, is that what you would consider "revealed to us"? Is it a new revelation?

for instance, Jesse says

I saw Him! I saw Elohim, Jehovah God, Yahweh sitting on the Throne! But I saw His feet - only His feet. . . He is so big - you can’t describe Him in a dimension. His hand is huge! His body, the form of it, is sort of like energy, spirit. There’s a wall around the Throne, but the Throne is higher than the wall - that’s why you can see the Throne from every direction, from a distance. And that power, that energy-like smoke of God, covers all around the chair of the Throne itself."

besides the fact that this contradicts I Tim. 6:16 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. -- is this what "He has revealed to us"? Should Jesse's revelations be taken as true?

Why do you believe him?

[Cronos]

Don't you see the sheer blasphemy in the following statements?

By Jesse Duplantis

God has the power to take life, but He can’t.
He’s got the power to do it, but He won’t. He’s bound; He can’t.
He says, “Death and life is in the power of” who’s tongue? Yours. You ready for this? You want something that’ll knock your lights off?
You choose when you live; you choose when you die. Death and life is in the power of your tongue, not God’s.

"Adam (not God) breathed life into animals"

“The very first thing on Jesus’ agenda was to get rid of poverty!

"With fierce prayers and determination to see my mother healed, I started talking to God. "What is going on here?! I'm praying! Dad's praying! Why isn't she healed? You cannot allow death to defeat me, God. You made a covenant with me through Jesus' blood! And that covenant says by His stripes we were healed! Where is that healing? If you break this covenant with me, you'll have to cease to be God! You must keep covenant with me. You must obey your Word!"

God tells Jesse: "You have Me in a hard place, Jesse. Someone has got to give in. Get yourselves together and tell Me what I am to do!" --> So God needs Jesse to tell Him what to do?

By benny hinn

God has 9 parts (tri-theistic).
A. God has a body, soul and spirit.
B. Jesus has a body, soul and spirit.
C. Holy Spirit has a body, soul and spirit. (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90)

"He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, 'The only way I can stop sin is by Me becoming it. I can't just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it must become one.' Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature of Satan where He became sin!" (Benny Hinn, TBN, 12/1/90).

[Cronos]

What's weird, jla is that some take their childhood pscyhological problems to use as hatred for Mary.

Deep rooted problems

yet these same folks can say Benny Hinn teaches Christian thought? Now some may defend Benny saying He affirms all the cardinal doctrines of the faith AND that Christ came in the flesh. I'm not at all convinced he's a false prophet. Excessive in a list of ways, probably.

but Benny's own preaching shows that as a false statement

• Christians are little messiahs. Christians are little gods. (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded November 1990)
• God has 9 parts (tri-theistic).
  A. God has a body, soul and spirit.
  B. Jesus has a body, soul and spirit.
  C. Holy Spirit has a body, soul and spirit. (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90)
• "What was the appearance of God the Father? Like that of a man...God has the likeness of fingers and hands and a face." (Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Benny Hinn, Word, 1991) p. 82)
• "What does God the Father look like? Although I've never seen Him, I believe - as with the Holy Spirit - He looks like Jesus looked on earth." (Benny Hinn, Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Word, 1991) p.87)
• "Had He (Jesus) not offered Himself through the Holy Ghost, He would not be accepted in the eyes of God the Father. Nor would He have endured the sufferings of the cross. Had He not presented Himself through the Holy Ghost, His blood would not have remained pure and spotless. And let me add this: Had the Holy Spirit not been with Jesus, He would have sinned." (Benny Hinn, Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Word, 1991) p.135)
• "I am a 'little messiah' walking the earth" (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-Thon" on TBN, November 6, 1990).
• "Are you ready for some real revelation knowledge....you are god" (Benny Hinn, "Our Position In Christ", tape # AO31190-1)
• "You are a little god on earth running around". (Benny Hinn, "Praise-a-thon" broadcast on TBN, November, 1990)
• " . . . the anointing is dependent upon my words. God will not move unless I say it. Why? because He has made us coworkers with Him. He set things up that way." (Benny Hinn, The Anointing. Nashville: Thomas Nelson. 1992. 82.)

I have no idea how folks can read the above and say about Benny that he " affirms all the cardinal doctrines of the faith AND that Christ came in the flesh. I'm not at all convinced he's a false prophet" -- to me it's obvious he IS a false prophet.

But the sheer inconsistencies in attacking Mary and yet believing in such conmen as shown above doesn't strike them

any idea what could be the reason, aruanan? May some deep-rooted problem with the pscyhe? abandonment or worse?

[Natural Law]

"When one takes an others "infallibility" as doctrine over reaped Scripture."

Because of the differences and disagreements over what is canon and what is not the Bible has been called an errant collection of inerrant works. No Scripture exists dictating which books and works are to be included so God, in his infinite wisdom, gave us a commission of men, directed by the Holy Spirit to infallibly capture preserve, defend and interpret the written Word.

Now you tell us that infallibility is too great a prerogative to be conferred on man even though God made man the organ of his revealed Word, is it impossible for Him to have made man its infallible guardian and interpreter. You also tell us that since the Scripture itself is inerrant and infallible that is sufficient.

How infallibly certain are you that an infallible Bible is sufficient for you or for everyone? Either you are infallibly certain that your interpretation of the Bible is correct, or you are not.

If you are infallibly certain, then you assert for yourself, and of course for every reader of Scripture, a personal infallibility which you deny the Pope, and which we claim only for him. You make every man his own Pope.

If you are not infallibly certain that you understand the true meaning of the whole Bible of what use to you is the objective infallibility of the Bible without an infallible interpreter?

[Titanites]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, yes . . . according to Pope Titanites.

Resorting to making it personal, again. If that's all you have, I guess that's all we can expect. Well, that and assertions.

[Titanites]

enjoy your mental . . . fondlings I hope the bunnies are facilitating your furry meditations.

Hmmm. Sounds like some more of the psychos' linguistics.

[Titanites]

Don't you see the sheer blasphemy in the following statements?

Apparently, you are not qualified in the psycho's linguistics or you would understand.