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To: CynicalBear
>> James was the bishop of Jersalem. Peter was the leader of the bishops. It is quite plain from Acts 2 onward.<<

Or so thinks the RCC.

So thinks anyone with understanding of the New Testament.

They also think that a person needs to be subject to the Pope to be saved.

Let us what the truth actually is:

Salvation outside the Church

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian theology since the time of the early Church Fathers, refers to the Catholic Church as "the universal sacrament of salvation" (CCC 774–776), and states: "The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men" (CCC 780).

Many people misunderstand the nature of this teaching.

Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned.

The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC 846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC 847).

Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics.

These can be saved by what later came to be known as "baptism of blood" or " baptism of desire" (for more on this subject, see the Fathers Know Best tract, The Necessity of Baptism).

The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.

However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.

Thanks to: http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asphttp://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

If you actually quote the Catechism correctly, you will also be correct.

133 posted on 06/30/2011 4:48:05 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr

So it’s not just Jesus death and resurrection and belief in Him that saves but the RCC also. Got it. I guess the scripture that says “believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved-and your house” forgot to mention membership in the RCC.


134 posted on 06/30/2011 4:55:15 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: MarkBsnr; CynicalBear
Thanks to:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asphttp://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

If you actually quote the Catechism correctly, you will also be correct.

On this thread alone you have seen at least one of your esteemed "educated" Catholic friends interpret the Catechism to believe the Church was built upon Peter, the ROCK.

Quoting correctly just won't do.

Further, would the following qualify as an "Infallible" declaration of a Pope?

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

If not, why not.

206 posted on 07/01/2011 10:42:00 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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