I'm not going to dissect this piece for piece, but the idea you pose of this being self imposed is amusing!
So what you're saying is that the Bataan Death March was really the fault of the “poor planning and greed” of the US forces, not the Japanese forcing them along? lol
Do you know what they did with Smith, after they murdered him? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr. ) The Mormon community was persecuted not once, twice or a few occasions, not even over simply a short time span, but literally decades. If one is serious and actually does a little bit of investigating and reading on this topic, but this is not the intent of those that cherry pick their facts or arguments. They were shot, hung and burned alive, their leaders murdered and mutilated, and they fled to a “no mans land” not because of all the great conveniences that were there waiting for them. May it be the actual persecution, the conditions they were exposed to that led to hardship, their journey's or building their new existence in a wilderness that wasn't the most forgiving, they lost many people.
Even today it is completely acceptable to make jokes or use ad hominem attacks on candidates etc. The same people of course would think twice if it were a black, native American, Jew or gay person they were attacking, but when it comes to Mormons, it's all good. The Mormons get the opportunity to have the left and the right dump on them, for differing reasons of course. The news media and Hollywood will join in on the fray since this community is opposed to many of the more socially progressive views. On the right there are stereo types, fictional make belief boogieman arguments or an exclusive view of Christianity that brands them as some sort of deviant.
Fact is, with the discussion of Romney as a candidate, the release of such articles is probably not coincidental. They don't even need to be outright negative and in fact if they were their true intent would be easily seen and their effectiveness lost. The purpose of these articles is to simply play on pre existing notions about Mormons and negatively impact Romney. You don't have to engage in name calling, just rekindle the cliche arguments by talking about issues that will surely draw a certain candidate into the cross-hairs.
Interesting fiction you must be reading red. I'm sure you have unimpeachable sources for those hung and burned alive.
But their woes tended to be of their own cause. If you do serious research you will find that mormon Rierdon in his 'salt sermon' declared war on the missourians weeks before the state was forced to respond.
May it be the actual persecution, the conditions they were exposed to that led to hardship, their journey's or building their new existence in a wilderness that wasn't the most forgiving, they lost many people.
They were persecuted because their leadership was in open defiance of the laws of this country - so much for that article of faith. And yes, actual research will show that Young and the inspired mormon leadership royally screwed up with their hand cart migration - with self inflicted deaths.
On the right there are stereo types, fictional make belief boogieman arguments or an exclusive view of Christianity that brands them as some sort of deviant
Fictional - lol, well documented by their own history red, nor is it an "exclusive" view - IF you bother to read the threads here in the RELIGION FORUM (hint hint), you would see that their doctrines - from their sources - are posted and contrasted to traditional Christianity. No need for boogiemen red.
Finally - your analysis/excuse for polygamy in the 1800s is flawed - studies show that there was not an overpopulation of women in the country as a whole, nor in Utah Territory.
Lay of the koolaid, man!
Comparing the trek west to the Batann death march is ludicrous. Mormons were not driven out of the country, they left. Their OWN ACTIONS (such as stealing from the gentiles and an unprovoked attack on Gov. Boggs of Missori, as well as their claims to take over the government and the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor) are what led to them leaving. Polygamy was part of it, and part of the founding of the Republican party.
Secondly, try reading the actual sources (journals and such) as well as books likeDevil’s Gate: Brigham Young and the Great Mormon Handcart Tragedy which detail the poor planning of the trek west. The deaths amounted to less than 2% of those traveling but immigrants were lured stateside with promises of being cared for and land, much of which never materialized.
I guarantee I know much more about Mormonism and Mormon history than you do, I know more than most Mormons.
CENSUS RECORDS PROVE there was no shortage of women.
You seem to have bought the propaganda the LDS church puts out.
Mormonism is proven deviant theologically on these threads every day. If you are LDS, the drinking the koolaid is expected, but if you claim to be a Christian then Mormonism is heretical and deviant in the highest order. That isn’t exclisivity, it is the facts proven here every single day.
In short, we are making nothing up and even using LDS SOURCES to prove that Mormon hand cart trek was badly planned (and had a lot to do with Brigham Young’s greed), that they are NOT Christians in any way shape or form and that there was NO need for polygamy, other than lust.
I’ve been there, you haven’t. I have devoted the last 20 years to studying Mormonism, have you? Tell me what specifically you would like cited and I will provide sources for you.
Do you realize that prisoner Smith had two loaded weapons smuggled into him earlier on the day he died?
If you heard about a prisoner today who was shot while shooting off two loaded weapons, what would your conclusion be? That others "murdered" him?
Indeed, we know members of that mob were out to murder Smith. [One of Smith's jailmates survived with no wounds, so we know not all were under such direct targeting] But we don't know all the reasons why Smith's jailguards gave the mob such access.
If you were a less-than-professional jail guard in those times (1844), and you knew your prisoner had loaded weapons, would you try to take those weapons away yourself -- or would you let an angry mob who had other issues with somebody in that room take care of it for you?
My main point here is that it wasn't your average "murder." It was a shoot-out. And in this way, it's a microcosm of the way so-called "Mormon persecution" from the earlier 1830s years is also presented: one of the alleged times of "persecutions" in 1830s Missouri was also a series of shootouts between the Mormon Danites, known as the Avenging Angels, and Missouri residents.
Let me provide you with a parallel illustration:
In the territorial days of the West, duels and challenges to fastest-gun draws were common. I would say that in most cases, if the one who primarily provoked such a duel was shot, law enforcement didn't press charges vs. the shooter. In fact, even if the provocateur won the duel, if it was perceived as an equal-opportunity shoot-out, the one who survived "walked."
Such shoot-outs of the 19th century, if they were perceived as a "fair draw," were not perceived as you have framed it: Persecution.
What's ironic is that here you talk about others superimposing a "sexual harem" interpretation upon 19th century polygamy, yet you're doing the same thing with these shoot-outs in 1830s Missouri! These were open conflicts in which Mormons were also killing people in Missouri!
Let me provide you with one example:
(a): Note this first entry at: Setting the record straight on the 'Hawn's' Mill Massacre
In this article, it explains how the Mormons love to cite Jacob Haun (real name was spelled Jacob Hawn with a "w"), who was the owner of the Hawn's Mill. But Jacob Hawn was never a Mormon...(In that article, a historian discusses why Jacob and Harriet Hawn were never Mormons.
"I like many other historians mainly assumed they were Mormons." But among other proofs, Baugh explained that they arrived earlier to Caldwell County before the Mormons, and no family records report that they were Mormons. So the mill that was attacked wasn't even a Mormon mill, after all! [Rewrite the history books and all that Mormon propaganda!]
(b) From the above-linked article: With 17 Mormons killed and 14 Mormons injured, the historian explained that the massacre on October 30, 1838 was the "singular most tragic event in terms of loss of life and injury enacted by an anti-Mormon element against the Latter-day Saints in our entire church's history." Well, I would hope that historians would present history in a more balanced way. What's NOT mentioned in that article is that 12 days before this attack:
•On October 18, 1838, Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, Lyman Wight, D. W. Patten at the head of 40 men made a descent on Gallatin, the county seat of Daviess, and they burned the only store and stole their goods. Previous to the 25th of October a great part of the Mormons residing in Caldwell County had returned home with their dividend of plunder.
* 6 days before this attack: • On October 25, 1838, the Battle of Crooked River: Mormon forces attacked (unknowingly?) the Missouri state militia under the command of Samuel Bogart. This incident became one of the principal points of conflicts in 1838 Missouri. The battle resulted in the death of three militia and the LDS leader, David Patten. One of the militia was taken prisoner by the Mormons. Source: http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/mormonism/are-christians-persecuting-mormons
You can see how "lopsided" Mormon historians tend to present history!
You know, I'm a descendent of a Mormon who was indeed harassed outside of Utah at one time -- just for being Mormon.
NOBODY is claiming that Mormons weren't harassed at times; that Mormons were not free from being murdered, being tarred with feathers, injury, and loss of homes. It all happened.
But, pray tell, which Mormons were hung? (Never heard of any by Lds historians wanting to play up such an example as "persecution.") "Burned alive." Who?
As poster Zakeet has ably pointed out on other threads, Lds killed more Gentiles than vice-versa.
As Mormons moved West, did they have 140 of them in a wagon-train put under siege for days on end, not letting children & their parents & injured & dying ones get access to water?
Did they have over 100 of them executed at point blank range? Their bodies stripped of all their clothing and left naked for animals to prey upon them?
Did they have 16-18 children -- a few of them bleeding profusely from wounds suffered as they were shot while in their parents' arms -- kidnapped for a few years?
Perhaps you need to read up on the Mountain Meadows Massacre of September, 1857. Just this week, only 154 years after the fact due to the reality that the Mormon church owns the property where these atrocities took place in Southern Utah, was it named as a "National Register" site. Way to go, Mormon church. It only took 154 years for that to happen!
When you consider what worldwide Christianity has suffered at the hands of outright persecutors, what's happened life-and-limb wise to Mormons is not even a drop in the bucket comparison-wise. Even where Mormons have suffered more -- loss of homes & properties -- is still not even a drop in the bucket compared to the history of historic Christianity.