Science and Religion: God Didn't Make Man; Man Made Gods

LATimes ^ | July 17, 2011 | J. Anderson Thomson and Clare Aukofer

[Steelfish]

Science and Religion: God Didn't Make Man; Man Made Gods In recent years scientists specializing in the mind have begun to unravel religion's "DNA."

By J. Anderson Thomson and Clare Aukofer July 18, 2011.

Before John Lennon imagined "living life in peace," he conjured "no heaven … / no hell below us …/ and no religion too."

No religion: What was Lennon summoning? For starters, a world without "divine" messengers, like Osama bin Laden, sparking violence. A world where mistakes, like the avoidable loss of life in Hurricane Katrina, would be rectified rather than chalked up to "God's will." Where politicians no longer compete to prove who believes more strongly in the irrational and untenable. Where critical thinking is an ideal. In short, a world that makes sense.

In recent years scientists specializing in the mind have begun to unravel religion's "DNA." They have produced robust theories, backed by empirical evidence (including "imaging" studies of the brain at work), that support the conclusion that it was humans who created God, not the other way around. And the better we understand the science, the closer we can come to "no heaven … no hell … and no religion too."

[BipolarBob]

#1 The universe was created and has not been here “forever”, even scientists concede that.
#2 If man invented God (and he does all the time - just not the Biblical one), he would not invent one that would humble Himself to die for our sins. That thought is against our nature. An invented god would be a badass that would kick the crap out of everybody else because . . well because he could. The God of Abraham is a God of Love, Mercy and Grace and that is why He is so amazing and so worthy of our worship.

[BigCinBigD]

Primitive people had to explain thunder and lighting somehow.

[El Cid]

...For starters, a world without "divine" messengers, like Osama bin Laden, sparking violence...

Right.
Because those atheists: Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro,ill Kim, et al.... have done such a wonderful job in promoting world peace...

[RatRipper]

Any single page of the Bible contains more wisdom than everything the LA Times has published from day 1.

I believe in God the Father, maker of Heaven and Earth, and in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord . . . .

Praise, Glory and Honor to the Most High God, amen.

Nonbelievers are so . . . so . . . trite and boring. Understanding the wisdom of God revealed in his Word is so very interesting and stimulating intellectually. When one is so wrapped up in oneself, it doesn’t have the time or the mindset to seek the One having true wisdom and power. So sad.

[johngrace]

Amen!!

[Happy Rain]

All those poor saps down in Hell banging on the ceiling with broom handles trying to get our attention...

[johngrace]

I watched Carl Sagan slips years ago. He would slip with the design of the Cosmos. Well if there is a design there is a designer ! Hello! I guess “Chance” or I should say “Father Chance” did it. The whole complex universe was just chance.

We are all so complexly made. Then also to reproduce. Humans,animals and plants bring forth there own kind. I guess chance also figured the reproduction aspect too. “ Father Chance”. How really dumb is it. Chance as random designer is astonishing.

[johngrace]

2 Corinthians 4:4
“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them”

[Blood of Tyrants]

How about we just get rid of all religions that believe that it’s okay to lie in order to promote their religion, that believe that anyone who will not convert to their religion can be murdered, the believe that a woman needs 4 male witnesses before she can accuse a man of rape, who believe that it is okay to strap bombs to children to kill infidels?

[Jim from C-Town]

All these atheists are so smart. They are not nearly as stupid as C.S. Lewis or Pope John Paul II or St. Paul, St. Peter, Michelangelo Buonarroti, Raffaello Sanzio da Urbino, or even that incredible dolt St. Augustine.

All Morons when compared to Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens. Such high intellect!

[HerrBlucher]

Wow, classic Atheist idiocy here...LOL!

[Texas Songwriter]

Primitive people had to explain thunder and lightning somehow.

Christians have never asserted there are not false religions. To the contrary, Jesus, himself, warned against false religions. Isiah 18:1 says, "Come let us reason together..."

We know the essentials of the physics of Lightning and thunder. We can discuss it if you like, but that seems not to be the thrust of this article.

First Principles.....Law of Causality says...for everything which comes to be there is a cause. The Universe came to be....The Universe had a cause. This simple syllogism needs to be addresses. Liebniz asked the pertinent question. "If there is no God, why is there anything at all?" When at that point just prior to that singularity of creation, when there was no time, matter, energy, or space, what brought the universe into existence out of NOTHING?

It seems odd to profer a 'miniplemic' on Truth based upon the philosophy of John Lennon. The man was a songwriter. His song, referenced was "Imagine". What is imagination? What is the physical makeup of imagination? What is its molecular weight. Like mind, conciousness, numbers, any mental event, love, hate, joy, the sentience of pain, cold, pressure, these universal abstract entities are not made of atoms, subatomic particles, or any physical thing, yet the author, obviously a physicalist, evolutionist, naturalist, using his own consciousness asserts a truth, but offers no ontology, no epistemology....just crass opinion. This screed is not worth the ink the newspaper used to propagate nonsense. Make their case, but do so logically, reasonably, and, if they wish, scientific method....but this persons opinion is of no greater value than that of anyone else.

[Steelfish]

I recall Carl Sagan saying if there is a God, we must venture further and ask how God came into existence?

The answer of course that elided him, was that to know the mind of God is to be God.

[KittenClaws]

The atheist crowd will believe as they will, in spite of the arguments Christianity presents.

We should definitely continue those arguments for the sake of their souls, but in the end, it is their choice - and their end.

[Billthedrill]

This is silliness. The case is that religion is an evolutionary adaptation that leads individual human beings into a participation in society, presumably for the benefit of the species. Apart from the fact that neither natural selection nor religion actually works that way, there is this additional consideration: the basic assertion may be true in both the case that the human mind invents God and the case that it merely recognizes Him. From the standpoint of the overall effect on the survival of the human species, there is no difference.

It gets worse. From the point of view of the atheist - and since the principal author works for the Dawkins Institute, I think it's fair to assume that this is at least in part their case - from that point of view it is atheism, and not religion, that constitutes an evolutionary dead end. That is not, one suspects, quite the conclusion the authors were looking for, but it is inescapable.

[Steelfish]

But this line of logic carries the danger of allowing the atheist to argue that eviscerating God from one’s psyche does not deprive the human condition of the need for Him and hence it is a dispensable invention of the mind.

[johngrace]

Its obvious we were made. We can look at anything manmade and see it was made. We may not be able to meet the maker but we do know it was made.

Us and the Cosmos is so much design we just try to shutdown because of human pride. We get a little knowledge then puff ourselves up.

I remember my friend years ago was so open and mocking others for believing in God. I pointed to a truck. I said chance design or made. He agreed made. Then he says he can meet the maker of that truck. I pointed out not unless he wants to meet you. So without going fully there realizing it. It was more about not knowing God right away. We are seperated. It is called sin. We fall short. We want to know God on our terms not God's at times.

Seek and you will find. You do not seek you will not find. I know I did with supernatural results.

Psalm 9:10 And let them trust in thee who know thy name: for thou hast not forsaken them that seek thee, O Lord."

[Billthedrill]

Not at all - if religion is, as suggested, a beneficial evolutionary adaptation, dispensing with it is inherently detrimental to the species. There is no case that atheism is a superior adaptation; indeed, the lack of surviving atheist cultures is a strong argument against that case from the evolutionary point of view.

What is implied in the article is that religion is merely a survival ploy. There is no "merely" here. That a belief in God provides a benefit to the species is demonstrable if we are to believe the author's case; what is not even addressed here is whether that belief is true or not. It works either way. If there is no God, then still a belief in God benefits the species; but if there is, then it still benefits the species - the atheist loses either way.

This is, actually, a very old argument dressed up in new clothing. The upshot of the article is the claim that one doesn't need God to explain the existence of religion. This moves seamlessly to the implication that God is an unnecessary logical entity and hence may safely be disposed of by Occam's Razor. It is laughably faulty logic. Just because one can imagine a universe without God does not mean that such a universe exists, or that we're living in it if it does.

Anyway, God does exist because He told me so. My atheist friends tell me I'm only imagining it. They're welcome to their illusion.

[death2tyrants]

Where critical thinking is an ideal.

These authors are grown-ups. They cite rock-and-roll lyrics as a source for philosophical advice, and here they are talking about critical thinking?

[Steelfish]

Of course to the Christian, we have seen the face of God in the Son of Man endowed not with a heart of stone like the pagan gods, but as Pope Benedict XVI as put it, with a human heart born of human flesh. This confronts the atheistic mind not in evolutionary terms of survival but in terms of life after death- an eternal salvation and this is choice of modern man that the rationalists are unable to comprehend.