Posted on 07/19/2011 5:07:06 AM PDT by spirited irish
That’s what repentance is all about.
Spirited: Indeed, but if as hosepipe seems to believe (mental activity, btw), if being born again is a passive act done to us, then repentance is unnecessary as sin must also be something we passively participate in.
bkmk
I always find it interesting, as well as amusing and entertaining, to watch someone who admits a staggering ignorance of spiritual matters pontificate about said spiritual matters as if they actually know of what they speak.
Your denial of reality by scornfully labeling it as magic and declaring it to be merely metaphor, does not make it so.
A person who has been born again, of course knows the reality of the situation. What you are doing is akin to a blind man claiming there is no light because he cannot see it, or the deaf claiming sound is not real because he cannot hear it.
The reality transcends any spiritually dead person’s ability to perceive it.
Writing off someone’s experience of being born again simply because y’all never experienced it personally, is self-deception of the highest degree.
FWIW, true Christianity is not a *religion*. A religion is man’s efforts to reach God. Being born again is God reaching man in a relationship. It’s not a system of do’s and don’t’s designed to make the human acceptable to God. It’s Christ’s righteousness being imputed to man so that that man is no longer under God’s judgment for his sin, but rather forgiven so that he can have a relationship with God.
Salvation from what?.. An offer?.. Jesus said; "You MUST be born again"..
J;3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born [from above, spiritually] of water and of the Spirit, he cannot "enter into" the kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God must NOT be of flesh.. therefore spirit is NOT flesh..
"flesh is flesh, and spirit is spirit".. Salvation "from flesh" follows..
We are virtual slaves to this flesh.. We feed it(with appropriate other activity's), water it, groom it, educate it, breed it, socialize it, entertain it, warm it, cool it, medicate it, work it, on and on.. probably a hundred other ways we are slaves to it.. We need to be saved "from it"..
Living for eternity as a human could be like a "lake of fire" metaphorically.. compared to other options.. One of which Jesus offers.. Mental activity originates in the brain.. does God have a brain?..
It appears to me that we humans are born and identify with the flesh.. thinking we "are" flesh.. only to find out later that (maybe) that flesh dies.. and long for another option instead of dying..
Jesus gives us one.. "being born again".. hoping for a new identity.. as a spirit.. Jesus tried (it appears) to "wean" the apostles from fleshly identity.. it worked somewhat.. but not completely.. same with the so-called "christians"..
[ if being born again is a passive act done to us, then repentance is unnecessary as sin must also be something we passively participate in. ]
Wrong premise.. We are already spirits.. placed in flesh (for a testing I assume).. Being born again is just realizing who and what we really are.. nothing has changed.. except metaphorically.. We are spirits rising a fleshly “space suit”.. getting tested.. For life as a human is indeed a test..
Again being born is an identity change.. some make it fully others partially.. others not at all.. Are you flesh or spirit or somewhere in between?.. even non believers(the unsaved) are spirits.. that think they are flesh..
I have no problem with that statement..
Humans are already spirits in human bodies(all of them).. but they are spirits and not flesh.. Everyone lives for eternity.. somewhere.. It is a problem of identity.. Basically; Who/what are you?.. A question most teenagers wonder about..
Will you live for eternity as flesh or as a spirit with no flesh?..
Its true.... some cannot even conceive of life without flesh.. (identified with flesh)..
Others "hope" for something "better"... What?.. they don't know.. (seekers of "the spirit")
Even animists seek "the spirit".. in a rudimentary way.. And Gnostics seek the same in a primitive mental way..But Jesus made it "simple" for the flesh and fleshly... "You MUST be born again"... i.e. get a new identity..
Because who you think you "are"... will determine what and how you seek..
Flesh seeks religion, the spirit(s) seek God...
Seeking a good fleshly experience or seeking a good spiritual experience..
Being confused (not being able to separate flesh and spirit) frustrates the flesh.. Identifying with the Spirit frees the spirit to soar..
Soar to where?.. Good question and basically what we are talking about here.. We must "come up hither"(Rev 4,1) as spirit in spirit "to see".. Flesh cannot conceive of "these" things..
Job 19:25-27 25For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. 26And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, 27whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another.
Jesus had a physical body after His resurrection. When He appears, we shall be like Him.
All of which is a distraction from what you were originally questioning or challenging.
Being born again is not a metaphor. It is reality. A person must be really born again, a new creation.
Being born again is just realizing who and what we really are..
Spirited: And who and what do you believe you really are?
[ yet in my flesh I shall see God, 27whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. ]
Some people will be forced to live for eternity in flesh..
some will NOT... is what I implied..
Those that love the flesh will get what they wanted all along, flesh..
Those that did not love the flesh will get something “else”.. (I assume something better)..
Which is the point.. Do you love the flesh or are you spiritual...
The flesh is one thing, the spirit something else..
Just realizing who and what we are precludes being born again.
Being born again is a work of grace on the part of God in our lives to give us spiritual life when we see our true position and repent and confess and ask forgiveness.
It's not a matter of self-awareness, or reform, or *the next step in the evolution of mankind* or any other such nonsense.
It's the creating of a new creation in us by the power and work of God. Until we repent there is no born again. What you are apparently espousing is some some kind of liberal, *God in all of us* new age psychobabble.
It is NOT Biblically based being born again through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. While some people may consider that a form of being born again in self-awareness, it is meaningless and useless in securing salvation and godliness in one's life.
That’s alot of New Age mumbo jumbo your talking there. So who and what are you, since you claim to know yourself?
Christianity has nothing to do with wrapping oneself up in New Age mumbo jumbo....BTW we are triune...body SOUL and spirit. SO is it well with your soul?
Fair question.. I am a spirit.. as I said.. all humans are spirits..
Spirits housed in “body suits”.. to function in a temporal environment..
To function thru the flesh test.. which includes many tests.. some sensory..
Being born again is merely realizing that.. “on some level”..
Repeating verbiage or doing some act accomplishes nothing.. For we are spirits now.. and always will be.. but will we be shed of this flesh is the question..
Is the flesh "evil" like the Gnostics say?.. I say no.. BUT evil spirits are seduced by the flesh.. They become addicted to it.. or bewitched by it.. indentified with it..
The spiritual "good", work thru fleshly or sensual attraction..
To seek "something else".. God or something not fleshly.. Call it seeking "the Truth"..
Is the flesh "BAD"... No I say.. but it is not "the Truth".. for we are spirit(s)..
Evil spirits will choose the flesh.. to identify with it..
Good ones will choose to seek further..
Maybe, finding the "Truth"..
New Age and other Spiritism is mumbo jumbo as you say..
Christianity is mostly Cargo Cultism with different cargoes.. i.e. sheep pens..
I've considered the Body, Soul, Spirit meme for many years..
Soul being (mind/emotion/will) all that.. buts its crude over simplification..
Also mumbo jumbo.. or even double talk.. weighted toward the flesh.. IMO..
My soul suffers from fleshly thoughts, feelings, and desires.. i.e. mind/emotion/will..
I may be shed of this flesh eventually.. replaced with I don't know what..
Well put, imho.
[ Just realizing who and what we are precludes being born again. ]
Babies are born thinking(knowing) they are flesh...
Most people grow up continue thinking they are flesh..
They see flesh, feel flesh, smell flesh, breed flesh and identify with the flesh..
A few seek to grow out of it, most do not..
Brilliant plan of God, I think..
God is not in any of us.... God is God, and we are who and what we are.. Is God in YOU?..
Yes, God is in me. He indwells me by the presence of the Holy Spirit which I received when I was born again.
Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Romans 8:10-12
But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
**************************************************************************
There are plenty more verses that make that statement if you’d like.
God is not in any of us.... God is God, and we are who and what we are..
“...Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Him.”
OUCH!! The pipe just burst.
[ Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? ]
Nice verses but as I was saying who and what are “you”?..
What are “you” that a Spirit can dwell in “it”?..
Does the Spirit dwell in flesh or spirit?..
And does “he” dwell consistently or from time to time.. as in an “anointing”..
Flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit.. God is Spirit it is reported..
Who is it that are Spiritual Mechanics?... You?..
I suspect “dwells in you” is metaphor for things none of us can truly understand..
I feel “my vision” of these things is partial.. is yours?..
Nice convo at any rate Mah!.. I believe your inquiry’s are honest and genuine..
We all see what we see... amazing how divergent those vistas are..
[ “...Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Him.” ]
What does “have” mean?..
i.e. possess, be conversant with, own, agree with, many more options, etc..
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