Posted on 08/05/2011 7:27:29 AM PDT by NYer
The 7th Century St Cuthberts Bible is the oldest European book.
The manuscript, a copy of the Gospel of St John, was produced in the north of England in the late seventh-century and was buried alongside St Cuthbert, an early English Christian leader, on the island of Lindisfarne off the coast of Northumberland around 698AD.
The coffin was moved off the island to escape Viking raiders and taken to Durham, where the book was found when the coffin was opened at the cathedral in 1104.
Books were so beautiful back then.
ping
Strange: don’t hear ‘bout no Vikings burying no precious books to keep them from the eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvvvvvviiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllll
Christian raiders.
‘nother one o’ those religions of peace, them Thorlovers, I suppose.
And, “dissolved the monasteries,” sounds so regular and “move-alongp-now-nothing-to-see-here” ordinary. How about calling a spade a spade: “When Henry VIII in a bloody power grab stole all the property he could lay his hands on to found his own Church”???
“Stole it and sold it to his thug-friends in order to increase his stash” like someone we know today tends to do (stealing GM from its stock-holders and giving it to the union-thugs).
Sort of like when they asked Dillinger why he robbed banks.
“Because that is where the money is.”
bump.
Bernard Cornwell mentions St. Cuthbert in a number of his novels.
Bowlus Superus XI -
Oaklandia Christian Raiders XXXII
Minnesotania Pagan Vikings XIV
True, as far as it goes.
They were anti-Christian. It added to their zeal in raiding. Sorry, it’s the truth.
It wouldn’t be easy for me to remember the source at short notice, but there’s the idea that Viking raids on Christians began in response to a Christian king giving their co-religionists in Saxony the choice of conversion or death.
You might ask the first Vikings to convert to Christianity about how lovey-dovey kind and generous the pagan Vikings were. You want to make them out into strictly fiscal thugs. They were both fiscal and religious thugs.
And before you come back with, “well Christianity spread by the sword,”
it’s
just
not
true
Islam spread by the sword. Christianity
did
not.
Even in the case of Charlemagne forcing the Saxons, it was forcing them to return to the Christianity they had embraced. Perhaps they hadn’t embraced it for the right reasons (fiscal Christians), perhaps he should not have violently forced them back—criticize him if you wish
but don’t cite it or other examples of Christianity spreading by the sword. Not even in Mexico or India did that happen. As long as the European powers tried to force it by the sword, it failed. In Mexico it was the apparitions of Mary at Guadalupe. In India it was the direct opposition to Portuguese “fiscal Christianity” by Francis Xavier that brought about the first significant conversions.
And don’t tell me about Clovis driving his army through the river to “baptize” them against their will. He didn’t do that. Yes, when he converted (via the persuasion of his wife), his army and people joined him, but they did NOT do so at the point of the sword. Loyalty was everything for the Franks (and the Vikings) and followers followed their leader but not at the point of a sword.
The point of the sword lie was created by Enlightenment Christian-haters (who came out of a truly state-church situation, which was a modern and Protestant invention) as part of their propaganda campaign.
That’s the Charlemagne and the Saxon canard. I dealt with it in a comment above. The Saxons had converted but rose in revolt against Charlemagne; his force was aimed at apostates. They converted after being conquered by him but post hoc non ergo propter hoc — the Anglo-Saxon missionaries had been working on the Saxons for some time.
People converted out of a mixture of motives—glum acquiescence to a conqueror among them — but it was voluntary.
Modern people do not understand how one can make a free choice under pressure. We have this stupid idea that “freedom” only takes place when it’s airy-fairy flower-child whim choice.
The process of Christianizing northern and western Europe was messy. It involved wars and conquests among German tribes. But the conversion did not simply take place at the point of a sword as it did with Islam. I know it makes a nice moral equivalence, as you suggest.
But it’s not historically true and even secular, pagan historians today agree. There’s an article in Speculum, for instance, about the conversion of Clovis deconstructing the “army through the river” myth.
Your textbooks in school and college all reflect the Enlightenment Anglo-American anti-Christian (and anti-Catholic) hegemony of historians for 300 years now.
Part of being a critical reader is to realize that such biases are built in and correct for them.
Charlemagne was a great sinner. I won’t defend his Saxon policy, though neither will I simply reject it. It was a messy time. But they were not converted at the point of the sword and that did not happen in Christian history—the Saxon affair comes the closest, along with the failed efforts by early modern colonial powers.
If one expected such one would be disappointed.
Christian Vikings terrorized the coasts and raided those who didn't pay the “Dane-geld” just as much as the Pagan Vikings did before them.
It was economics that turned raiders into traders - not religion.
The additional zeal probably had a lot to do with the Christians telling them their God was not the right one.
You’ve apparently read more than me on this. I didn’t see this from a textbook in school or college - it was recent, from the internet, and might have been from this site.
As right as you may be, I’m probably not the only one on here who’d get the initial impression that thou doth protest too much. Surely Vikings were aware what had happened in Saxony, not far away. Would you agree? And perhaps they’d have missed some of the subtleties you’ve mentioned as being involved in killing so many Saxons.
Some may use it as a canard; I don’t. I’m interested in knowing the truth of it. If you have a link to your sources, I’d appreciate it. I doubt very much though that all historians agree on this, as historians often can’t even agree what they had for lunch the day before at their conferences.
Ah, thanks for reminding me!! I've read all of his Richard Sharpe novels, and learned a lot about Wellington's campaigns against Napoleon. I'd been meaning to start his Medieval series, but never got around to it.
I've recently finished RE-reading Ellis Peter's "Cadfael" series, about a 12th century Welsh Benedictine monk in an abbey in Shrewsbury, England. He had been a Crusader, and took the cowl in his late forties. Learned a lot about the civil war between King Stephen and the Empress Maud in that one!
Most of them have been dramatised. Acorn media has them. They star Derek Jacobi as Cadfael.
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