Posted on 08/05/2011 7:27:29 AM PDT by NYer
He didn’t use the money for the church, my FRiend. He used it for his own secular purposes.
“Because that is where the money is.”
Actually, Willie Sutton said that in response to the question as to why he robbed banks.
for historians (amateur and professional), the reformation was beyond doubt the single greatest disaster in english history.
The vikings didn’t just raid britain, they conquered and settled a substantial amount of it in the late 9th century, and later fully conquered england in the early 11th century (Swein, though he died before being crowned and his son Cnut held the thrones of England and Denmark, iirc). They had similar success in northern france as well. At the time this was going (9th ct) on they were so pagan that I have trouble imagining them having any interest in religious issues on the continent.
I have never seen a single reference anywhere on conversion events in saxony having anything to do with the beginning of viking raids. Vikings weren’t too picky about who they raided, they would raid across to other norse countries as well if it were permitted.
I stand corrected.
Thanks - that is what I get for going from memory.
The theory is around. Houghton M. mentions it more fully than I did to discredit it. His sources might be a place to start if you’re interested.
No doubt the Vikings raided other heathens, and when surrounded by Christians and of a mind to raid, it would have been hard not to raid Christians. Their interest in religious issues on the continent, of which Denmark is a part, would have been related to watching one group of followers of Odin and Thor be mass murdered by their Christian neigbors, and wondering if that’s something to expect from Christian neighbors.
I don’t think the theory, or hypothesis, that there was a connection posits that there was an Odinist holy war against the Church of Rome, of which raids on coastal monasteries and churches were just a few battles.
Can I buy an ‘h’? I’d like to solve the puzzle: neighbors.
Careful re the ‘Thorlovers’ HM. We’re still about. We didn’t need precious books, don’t you know, because we had honey meade.
I’ve seen those adaptations, but much as I like Derek Jacobi, I didn’t like the way they changed the stories sometimes, trimming characters, etc. I know they did it for time purposes, but I like the books better.
I’ve read the books and the major issues I have with the shows are with Oswin and Berengar (can you believe I can’t instantly recall the character’s name? sigh..). Both were stronger, more interesting characters in the books.
OTOH, the books’ pace seemed uneven and the beats occurred at less-than-optimum places with sometimes not enough sometimes too much preparation. The series IMHO did fix thast problem. They were all well-paced. My personal favorite is “The Rose Rent”.
My favorite book in the series was, oddly enough, “St. Peter’s Fair” which is easily one of the weakest in the TV series.
Yet, even so, that is one of the few series of mysteries I actually own (Inspector Morse is the other).
I’m not 100% sure, but I thought Cnut was emphatically a Christian king. His son was supposedly much less devout (or perhaps more devoutly Wotanic), but not Cnut.
I have factually read a book about cnut (which has a picture of him and his wife in some tapestry somewhere doing christian-oriented stuff), yet didn’t remember any of it nor the fact I had read it in my previous post. Cnut went to some emphatic lengths to be a very christian king.
I remember seeing some photo long ago in a book I presumably still own of the hodge-podge of bones in caskets above the altar area of winchester cathedral, with the assumption that cnut,. his wife, a few others of named note, were probably included in the bone collection. I spoke to a man (this was in probably 1999) at the cathedral who first seemed surprised I even knew of the bones and then told me they weren’t at that time sure who was who, etc, that for whatever reason they couldn’t associate the varied bones with any given corpse. it was interesting to consider that cnut might be among the varied skulls and other bones pictured, he would certainly be the oldest person on skeletal display I know of.
Harthacnut and harald neither made any such lasting impression at all.
All that said, I am not sure how this would relate to swein or the various viking fleets harassing england in the early 11th century.
I have read entire books on fairly narrow topics, but for whatever reason, my memory is perfectly capable of temporarily forgetting I ever read such a book at all.
They didn’t become Christians until the late 1100s and 1200s. Christianized Vikings did not raid “just as much.” Whether the reason for the decline was economic or religious, one can argue. The transition took nearly two centuries—more than most places in western Europe. Along the way, a lot of half-Christians Vikings did what half-Christian/half-pagans might be expected to do.
But you can attribute it all to economics if you wish. Religion superstructure, economics substructure and foundational—good Libertarian or Marxist theory, take your pick.
So any Viking who raided after Christianity came to Norway was only half-Christian. Wow -that cut incidence of raiding by Christian Vikings 50% in one fell swoop - or is it 100% by your method of calculation!
If you were smarter or knew anything interesting you might be amusing. Libertarian or Marxist!! Pffffft!!!!!
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