Posted on 10/17/2011 8:03:26 AM PDT by Colofornian
Mormons believe that in 1820 a young Joseph Smith went into the woods to pray. In answer to that prayer, they believe, Joseph was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ. Today this is called the First Vision. As Joseph reported this vision (in the version that has since been named “official”), he asked the Deities which sect or church was right, and which one he should join. Joseph wrote,
“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt…” (Joseph Smith—History 1:19)
Mormonism entered into the religious scene swinging. According to Mormonism’s founding prophet, if you are not a Mormon, your church is wrong, your beliefs are abomination to God, and you and your fellow professing church members are all corrupt.
I wonder if Mormons would see this as an example of “the blessings of faith [that] carry the responsibility of civil and respectful debate” that Mitt Romney has been talking about recently?
Last weekend Dallas Pastor Robert Jeffress publically identified Mormonism as a theological cult. Dr. Jeffress used the term “cult” as a theological classification, not as a pejorative, but that point seems to be lost on Mormons and the mainstream media.
Since Dr. Jeffress’ comments have been made known, Mormons have been vocally decrying his “bigotry,” his “hatred,” and his “fanaticism.” Truthfully, this all too common knee-jerk Mormon reaction grows wearisome.
Mormonism’s very existence is unseverable from the “poisonous language” of its founders and leaders. Why was The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints established? Because all existing churches in 1820 were declared wrong–they had abominable creeds and corrupt members professing those creeds. The Mormon Church was established because (it claims) true Christianity had vanished from the earth; it had fallen into complete and total apostasy:
“Every Latter-day Saint knows that following the death of the apostles, Paul’s prophecy was fulfilled, for there were many ‘grievous wolves’ that entered the flock, and men arose ‘speaking perverse things,’ so that the doctrines were changed and the true Church of Jesus Christ ceased to be on the earth. For this reason there had to come a restoration of the Church and a new revelation and bestowal of divine authority. The Church of Jesus Christ and the Holy Scriptures are, therefore, not responsible for the changed doctrines and unscientific teachings of those times, when uninspired ecclesiastics controlled the thinking of the people.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Man, His Origin and Destiny, pp. 467)
Consider just a few of the “punches” Mormonism has thrown in its fight against Christianity:
“Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers’ sermons—preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born.” (Heber C. Kimball, July 26, 1857, Journal of Discourses 5:89-90)
“Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity.” (Brigham Young, July 8, 1863, Journal of Discourses, 10:230).
“What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing…Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest of fools…” (John Taylor, May 6, 1870, Journal of Discourses 13:225)
“I do not wish to say anything in relation to other forms of religion; I do not know that it is necessary that I should do so; but no thinking man can admit that Christianity so-called—I call it a false Christianity, untrue to its name—satisfies the wants of humanity at the present time.” (George Q. Cannon, July 15, 1883, Journal of Discourses 24:185)
“The false and corrupt institutions, and still more corrupt practices of ‘Christendom,’ have had a downward tendency in the generations of man for many centuries. …The overthrow of those ancient degenerate races is a type of that which now awaits the nations called ‘Christian,’ or in other words, ‘the great whore that sitteth upon many waters….” (Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology, 1978, p. 106)
“A false Christ…is a false system of worship, a false church, a false cult that says: ‘Lo, here is salvation; here is the doctrine of Christ. Come and believe thus and so, and ye shall be saved.’…We hear the voice of false Christs when we hear the Athanasian Creed proclaim that ‘whosoever will be saved’ must believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are incomprehensible and uncreated, that they form a Trinity of equals, who are not three Gods but one God, and not one God but three Gods, and that unless we so believe we ‘cannot be saved,’ and ‘shall perish everlastingly.’” (Bruce McConkie, The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man, p. 48.)
“False creeds make false churches. There is no salvation in believing a lie. Every informed, inspired, and discerning person is revolted by the absurdities and scripture-defying pronouncements in the creeds of Christendom…” (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah: From Bethlehem to Calvary 1:30. Footnote 2)
“To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the Apostles is not to say that all that is in it is satanic…Still, ‘the power of God unto salvation’ (Rom. 1:16) is absent from all but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which the Lord himself has proclaimed to be ‘the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth (D&C 1:30). Satan’s goal of hindering many of God’s children from returning to their Father’s glory is thus realized.” (Kent P. Jackson, “Early Signs of the Apostasy,” Ensign, December 1984, p. 9)
Given the statements I’ve quoted above, I’m astonished that Mormons cry foul when any Christian declares that Mormonism is outside the theological boundaries of Christianity. Do Mormons really believe it is reprehensibly one-sided for evangelical Christians to use strong language to define the fact that there are vast differences between Mormonism and Christianity? Apparently so; a Mormon calling himself Eichendorff went on record with this non sequitur: “no Latter-day Saint makes a point of condemning the beliefs of Evangelicals.”
Mormons who complain about Christians questioning the theology of Mormonism–protesting against any suggestion that Mormonism isn’t Christianity with cries of “bigotry,” “hatred,” and “fanaticism”—need to take a look at the historical discourse found in their own church. I would like to see Mormons abandon this hypocritical name-calling and (changing sports metaphors here) step up to the plate for real, thoughtful discussion. As Bill McKeever is fond of saying, “If Mormons want to be in the religious Big Leagues they need to knock it off.”
There is nothing more embarrassing than a bunch of ministers squabbling for tithes.
I can’t remember if it was jahova witness other mormons, but one of them states that’s the Angle of Light gave them their gospel. Even in their own concordance the angle of light has another name.
The concordance reads, see devil.
I may disagree with some teachings of different denominations but I do not question there salvation. The problem comes with any church saying they are the “ONLY TRUE CHURCH”. That is what all cults have in common.
If anyone wants to test if there church is a cult all they have to do is quit the church. If they are disowned by all of there church friends they are in a cult.
THAT IS THE TRUTH
IF YOU COULD HIE TO KOLOB
William Phelps, 1842
(Hymn #242 in the Mormon hymnal)
1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,
And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,
Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?
2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’
Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”
3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.
4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.
5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.
There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.
Here is a link to an interesting article about this topic in Christianity Today:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/mayweb-only/122-42.0.html
And the same Smith that went right back to stealing sheep AFTER he claims he had met god and jesus or was it just jesus or was it an angel or several anghels ???
And the same Smith that went right back to stealing sheep AFTER he claims he had met god and jesus or was it just jesus or was it an angel or several angels ???
That excuse is. . . . . . believeable LOL
The day/week is still young
Personally penned. Actually the “official” version wasn’t written by smith’s hand, but that of his scribe and though written in 1838, it was not published until 1842 in Times and Seasons.
The other accounts smith had direct oversight on and probably contributed to the writing, such as interviews and publications in lds periodicals. Excluding Harris’ 1827 acct, that makes 9 - that is why off the top of my head I said NEARLY a dozen.
In a detailed accounting of the versions found here:
http://www.irr.org/mit/first-vision/fvision-accounts.html
They conclude:
First, Joseph did not relate his story consistently, but changed key elements over the years. He changed:
The date / his age — from 1823 (age 16), to 1821 (age 15), to 1820 (age 14)
The reason or motive for seeking divine help — from no motive (a spirit appears with the news of gold plates), Bible reading and conviction of sins, a revival, a desire to know if God exists.
Who appears to him — a spirit, an angel, two angels, Jesus, many angels, the Father and the Son.
Second, common elements from early accounts raise questions about what appears to be a gradual evolution of Joseph Smith’s first vision story. Did Joseph begin to include a “Christian experience” in the telling of his story because Bauder noticed it was lacking? The earliest accounts given to Chase and Harris do not include this. There is a noticeable shift in the context of finding the gold plates, from 17 year-old money-digger to 14 year-old spiritual seeker. Is this an attempt to put his story into a more socially acceptable context? It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that as time went on, Joseph omitted uncomfortable but true parts of his history and replaced them with fictitious elements in order to make his story more socially acceptable and spiritually compelling.
************************
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three amen stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
“Get a Masonic (Mason) Bible, and then compare it with the John Smith versin of the Bible”
Why would I use a Bible from one cult to check on another cult? I have spoken to and listened to many who have been in the upper ranks of the Masonic Lodge who have come to know Jesus as their Lord and have come out against the beliefs and practices of the Masonic Lodge.
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Tell us moose - who does the bible say Jacob wrestled with.
(And tell us, Moose, was Eve made after the unnamed goddess' physical image -- you know, the one Mormons claim that the Mormon god has had sex with to produce billions & billions & billions of spirit babies...and if she's having sex that often, how does she do -- or the Mormon god do -- anything else given that Lds believe time is ticking on the other side of the veil?)
Per the "Jesus Christ as His Gospel" portion of the Lds encyclopedia: "In LDS Christology, Jesus was in time before he entered mortality, is in time now, and will be forever." (p. 459)
Why do we know more about Eve than we do the Mormon goddess(es)? Doesn't the Mormon god wish to display His "trophy wife" or wives?
The pre-incarnate Jesus Christ is one of the three. The other two are angels (see Genesis 19:1). He's the only person of the Godhead that man has ever seen. ("No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him" John 1:18)
Two of the "men" head to toward Sodom while the LORD tarries to talk with Abraham (Genesis 18:22*). The other two are in fact angels (Genesis 19:1a "Then there came two angels to Sodom at even;) After the angels escort Lot and his family out of Sodom, the LORD destroys Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24).
I see I'm still supplying the Book and Chapter for your incomplete references. Are you unable to do this yourself?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.